MVV
pfm Member
It is not 'sugar coating' anything. It is just showing a bit of respect. This is the sort of comment that led to the vote in the first place.
Brexit: give me a positive effect (2022 remastered edition) II
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Nick_G
pfm Member
These were desperate people who felt that they had been left behind and wanted to have their voice heard. Unfortunately the 'bastards' in the Tory Party saw this anger and frustration as an opportunity to use Brexit to realise their dream of a low-wage deregulated tax-avoiding 'utopia' and so manipulated these people to vote against their long-term interests. If you want to be angry, then it should be at con-men like Farage, Banks, Grimes, Johnson, Tice, Redwood, Rees-Mogg etc. It's thanks to them we are regarded as unreliable, untrustworthy, had our credit rating downgraded several times, and become a global laughing stock - diminished and weaker on the world stage in the face of global turmoil and uncertainty.
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SteveS1
I heard that, pardon?
Precisely. There is no pleasure to be had in having known how much harm Brexit would do to the UK, the only opportunity for any relief would have been in preventing it, had that proved possible. This will be a very hard slog and mostly damage limitation, a criminally (quite literally in the case of many Brexit funders and supporters) self inflicted act.
I don't personally care how many of the zealots would admit this was a mistake, it changes little and the figures don't lie. I just hope future generations and younger voters learn from it.
Bond Markets 1 Sovereignty Spartans 0
The near destruction of the Tories may turn out to be the only credible Brexit benefit. Leave voters deserve a pat on the back - it took them a mere 6 years to bring the Tories to where they are today. Far more effective opposition than the left then.
-alan-
pfm Member
Kind of harsh surely - many were misled, no ?
tuga
Legal Alien
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Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I think it is fair to suggest that of those who might say they were misled, their prejudices allowed them to ignore the loud and numerous warnings, at the time, that they were being misled.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
There was too many comin in and taking our jobs.
There’s no one comin in to take all those empty jobs and keep the country running!
There’s no one comin in to take all those empty jobs and keep the country running!
droodzilla
pfm Member
Nope. Based on the leave voters I know, I don't think that's fair at all.
tones
Tones deaf
It always struck me that the British, unlike the Irish, were reluctant Europeans. They'd fallen a long way from splendid isolation, "fog in the Channel, continent cut off" days, but they couldn't forget the glories of Empire, even after the humiliation of Suez. When Rudyard Kipling first set off for India, he was told, "remember, after all, Sir, you are an Englishman, and have therefore won first prize in the lottery of life". This sort of thinking lingered on, and the Brexiteers sold it very successfully, that Britain, unencumbered by the strange rules and habits of foreign Johnnies, would soar once again to the forefront.
People accepted this, because they wanted to accept this. They wanted to be seen as exceptional, the way the Americans think of themselves, of punching above their weight. I still can't get my head around that this little country off the shores of continental Europe, in an age of anti-ship killer missiles, ordered the two biggest and most expensive ships ever built for the Royal Navy. Perhaps only another Suez will bring a dose of reality.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Interesting. Are these leave voters now arguing they were misled?
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Well, those same voters voted for Boris who promised to get Brexit dun and level them up into the bargain. Fool me once, more fool….
-alan-
pfm Member
Based on a sample size of one admittedly - but an old school friend of mine (from NI) recently told me he had voted for Brexit, based on some difficulties he experienced personally trying to run a business 'suffering from EU restrictions and constraints' and a cursory look at the contributions vs benefits message being touted in the more right of centre press.
His business has since closed (possibly in part due to Brexit/possibly not) - but he freely admits that he felt he hadn't got the full picture at the time, and wished he had voted the opposite way.
droodzilla
pfm Member
Not necessarily. Some did, some didn't. Some of the leave voters I know saw right through Johnson and had him down correctly as a "posh ****er".
Edit: the leave voters I know that did vote for Johnson didn't do so because they thought he was a great politician who cared about them. They voted for him because they were determined that the democratic vote in favour of Brexit should be respected. It's an entirely reasonable position to take, in my view.
droodzilla
pfm Member
No. They're not thinking about Brexit at all. They moved on pretty much as soon as they cast their vote six years ago.
They tend to see politics as a game that takes place a long way from where they live and which has little bearing on their lives.
Part of the root problem - a far deeper one than Brexit - is that they are not entirely wrong.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Then my remark doesn't apply to them, so I don't think it's reasonable of you to categorise it as unfair.
Edit: I do agree with you, though, that this disconnectedness from politics is a big problem, and we might not fix the issues we're struggling with, as long as it persists in a large element of the electorate.
farfromthesun
pfm Member
Their decision would have had a significant bearing on the lives of others, even if not their own; makes you wonder whether they should have bothered participating in the game at all.
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