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At last... (Audiolab) - part VII

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Don't know what you mean by 'And I have the strongest suspicion that the DAC1 is completely unnecessary'.
I think you probably do, but to spell it out, I think the MDAC will more than fight its own corner

Don't know if 'the DAC1 is/will be superior to the MDAC as I have not heard it yet as, unless you know different,
I used the word suspicion not know

it is still only available as 'pre order'.
So how can anyone give you any confirmation that your (unique) system configuration "would not cause any problems/degrading of DAC1 USB SQ"?

As to 'the MDAC's duties should be relegated to use as a £600 glorified remote control in comparison to the DAC1 - is that the case?' What I do with items I have bought with my own money is not for you to concern yourself about.

DAC1 HDR appox. £1,600 vs MDAC £600 so £1,000 more.
resale value of DAC1 USB approx £800 + MDAC £600 = £1400 and a quick search implies you could get an HDR for £1500
so £100-£200 more and absolutely no question about compatibility or adverse effect on sound quality

(what I choose to concern myself with is entirely up to me)

As already stated 'would like to connect it to my existing DAC, at least initially, for comparison purposes...'
Plugging one dac into the other isn't a comparison, it's whole new digital audio device. The comparison would be between Dacmagjc and MDAC as an spdif device into a DAC1. Plugging them both into your amp via different inputs would be the comparison between MDAC & DAC1. Sorry if I've misunderstood your proposed configuration.

As I previously said, I am very happy with the DAC1 USB but would like to try the MDAC so looking for confirmation that my proposed set-up would not cause any problems/degrading of DAC1 USB SQ?

Thanks for your help.
With regards evaluating the sq of an MDAC feeding into a DAC1, I think you will be breaking new ground
 
1. The MDAC will De-jitter the SPDIF feed to the DAC1 - so improve the sound quality of the DAC1.

2. The "D3E" Digital Domain Decorrelation Engine of the MDAC will also process the SPDIF output feeds - again this will improve the sound of the DAC1 when connected via the MDAC's Digital output.

3. RF leakage will be injected into the MDAC from the DAC1 so degrading the performance of the MDAC.

When performing direct comparisons between MDAC / other DAC's its better NOT to feed the second DAC from the MDAC’s Digital output as the connected DAC will gain the direct benefits of the MDAC's processing, while the MDAC will be degraded due to RF leakage from the second DAC.

John

Hi John

Many thanks for your reply.

One point. Why/how will the DAC1 USB inject RF leakage into the MDAC when both units are designed to reject RF leakage?
 
I think you probably do, but to spell it out, I think the MDAC will more than fight its own corner

I used the word suspicion not know

So how can anyone give you any confirmation that your (unique) system configuration "would not cause any problems/degrading of DAC1 USB SQ"?

resale value of DAC1 USB approx £800 + MDAC £600 = £1400 and a quick search implies you could get an HDR for £1500
so £100-£200 more and absolutely no question about compatibility or adverse effect on sound quality

(what I choose to concern myself with is entirely up to me)

Plugging one dac into the other isn't a comparison, it's whole new digital audio device. The comparison would be between Dacmagjc and MDAC as an spdif device into a DAC1. Plugging them both into your amp via different inputs would be the comparison between MDAC & DAC1. Sorry if I've misunderstood your proposed configuration.

With regards evaluating the sq of an MDAC feeding into a DAC1, I think you will be breaking new ground

Hi Chris

May I suggest you have a look at JohnW's helpful reply and compare it to your rantings.

I'm sorry if you have a problem with me using a Benchmark DAC1 USB (maybe you have had a bad experience with Benchmark DACS - I would be interested to know).

IMHO, there are a number of very good/excellent DACs to choose from at various price levels and I have no reason to suggest that the MDAC will not be one of them.

I don't believe you would expect everyone to choose the same amps, speakers etc. but you appear to believe that the only DAC worth buying is the MDAC.

I must presume you have listened to the MDAC, and compared it to other DACs, to come to your conclusions so would be interested to know what DACs you used for comparison and full test/comparison details.

Lastly, how does the SQ of the MDAC compare with your current DAC, if you have one (or more)?
 
Hi JohnW

Thanks for the nices products, I will soon get the 8200DQ but still researching if the OLED, transformer update and latest software is already included. Thanks for all the internal information, which other brands never offer. I would just wish somebody would collect all the bits and pieces and put them into a structured order like a wiki. I think it would prevent you form answering the same questions again and again.

Chris
 
Planning to get the MDAC and use with JRiver Media Center on Windows 7 64 bit. I see that the MDAC can support software media player function over USB from the MDAC remote (play, pause, skip, volume, etc.). What about direction up, down, left, right and select/OK?
 
Planning to get the MDAC and use with JRiver Media Center on Windows 7 64 bit. I see that the MDAC can support software media player function over USB from the MDAC remote (play, pause, skip, volume, etc.). What about direction up, down, left, right and select/OK?

The remote does not have keys for those functions, playback control only, no navigation.
 
Planning to get the MDAC and use with JRiver Media Center on Windows 7 64 bit. I see that the MDAC can support software media player function over USB from the MDAC remote (play, pause, skip, volume, etc.). What about direction up, down, left, right and select/OK?

Hi cpalcott

The MDAC User Manual can be downloaded from the Audiolab website http://www.audiolab.co.uk/Downloading.aspx?Lang=En&Tab2=Manuals

which should help answer most questions about specification, features etc.
 
After several attempts over the last few days I've been unable to complete the download. Which may be just as well as John says it's full of errors as he and Dominik weren't asked to proof read it.

The URL for the manual is http://www.audiolab.co.uk/Manuals/M-DAC manual.PDF When the download kb stalls try using the 'Save' button to get it started again.

[Update] Finally got it by right-clicking on the above URL and 'save target' file instead of letting Internet Explorer navigate and display the PDF. Also See John's post below re correction of earlier version of the manual.
 
downloads fine for me.

see it's a different file from the intial manual that was uploaded - the filename for that was 'MDAC+manual__curves2.pdf'
 
Its pretty amazing how many features its got, just glancing at the PDF manual, i liked this bit best on page 16...

"if you hold down the up and down selector keys simultaneously metre long telescopic arms and legs will extend from the MDAC... once you've made your beverage selection via the control knob, it will give you a cheeky wink via the display panel and saunter off into the kitchen to make you a lovely brew..."
 
After several attempts over the last few days I've been unable to complete the download. Which may be just as well as John says it's full of errors as he and Dominik weren't asked to proof read it.

The URL for the manual is http://www.audiolab.co.uk/Manuals/M-DAC manual.PDF When the download kb stalls try using the 'Save' button to get it started again.

Hi Jamjar,

Manuals OK - we worked on it with a UK Manual writer who knows his stuff...

The Website is full of errors 84.670MHz max sampling rate?? - XLR THD should be 0.002%, Finish is Bead Blast - not hairline as shown in the "Finish". The Photos of the MDAC show an early prototype unit - with incorrect rear panel Silkscreen.

Oh and its 24Bits not 32...

John
 
Hi John,

The manual mentions the bit perfect test file is to be published on the Audiolab web site however I couldn't find it. Hopefully we'll be looking for it soon to try it out when the MDAC's arrive at the dealers :). I guess they'll get round to it in due course.
 
Hi Chris

May I suggest you have a look at JohnW's helpful reply and compare it to your rantings.

I'm sorry if you have a problem with me using a Benchmark DAC1 USB (maybe you have had a bad experience with Benchmark DACS - I would be interested to know).

IMHO, there are a number of very good/excellent DACs to choose from at various price levels and I have no reason to suggest that the MDAC will not be one of them.

I don't believe you would expect everyone to choose the same amps, speakers etc. but you appear to believe that the only DAC worth buying is the MDAC.

I must presume you have listened to the MDAC, and compared it to other DACs, to come to your conclusions so would be interested to know what DACs you used for comparison and full test/comparison details.

Lastly, how does the SQ of the MDAC compare with your current DAC, if you have one (or more)?
absolutely no ranting in anything I wrote in that last post - look up its meaning - couldn't possibly have been written in a calmer manner or state; same with this reply. Unfortunately the written word doesn't allow you to determine the actual tone of the writer, only to guess.

so to avoid me being misunderstood or misinterpreted:
- you said you were "looking for confirmation that my proposed set-up would not cause any problems/degrading of DAC1 USB SQ?"
- confirmation has quite a specific meaning and requests an answer which is without doubt
- degradation in audio is down to personal interpretation - what I determine to be inaudible or audibly irrelevant may be critical to you
- I have absolutely no problem with anyone's use of a Benchmark dac - or the use of any other dac for that matter - it's a very fine device and not surprisingly has been on my list of potential dacs
- it seems to me that in the way that you describe your proposed connection of MDAC & DAC1 that
- overall it would be simpler, be assured of being problem free and approximately the same budget to go for the HDR if you want a Benchmark dac and to retain the benchmark sound and quality
- and if you're connecting the MDAC & DAC1 'together' - the output of one connected to an input of the other, which is how I still interpret your description, then you won't be comparing them. As I said before, apologies if I've misunderstood your proposed configuration.

None of this is or was ranting. And is just as helpful in its own way

note that John's reply didn't actually provide the confirmation you asked for

And to answer your other questions, assuming you really are interested in the answer

I've heard lots of different dacs and digital replay systems and very few of them have made a good stab at my objective of reproducing real life.

I tend to listen for specific things within recordings as I find it makes it easier to have some form of memory between systems when they can't be compared side by side. Not surprisingly, very few people have been in a position to directly compare the MDAC with any other dac. When I listened to it it was in a system which overall didn't match my tastes, but I could hear things I've being looking for in a dac. And its based on a whole series of principles concepts and details which I've come to believe are highly relevant in digital replay, based on other dacs and systems I've heard, that aren't present in other dacs, and has received particularly good reports in comparison to other dacs by those who have been in the fortunate position to make a comparison.

Have a wander around the Hifi Wigwam show and you'll get the opportunity to compare all the prime contenders

Test results? Most are go/no-go - or rather most are no-go

...full test/comparison results?
Just make it sound like real life

My current dac, for all its relevance, has been an experiment in upsampling (full control of upsampling rate) and this has helped guide me to the dac I want. It would have been Sabre 32 based - either Buffalo or wyred for sound - and then I discovered John's design plans...
 
so to avoid me being misunderstood or misinterpreted:
- you said you were "looking for confirmation that my proposed set-up would not cause any problems/degrading of DAC1 USB SQ?"
- confirmation has quite a specific meaning and requests an answer which is without doubt
- degradation in audio is down to personal interpretation - what I determine to be inaudible or audibly irrelevant may be critical to you
- I have absolutely no problem with anyone's use of a Benchmark dac - or the use of any other dac for that matter - it's a very fine device and not surprisingly has been on my list of potential dacs
- it seems to me that in the way that you describe your proposed connection of MDAC & DAC1 that
- overall it would be simpler, be assured of being problem free and approximately the same budget to go for the HDR if you want a Benchmark dac and to retain the benchmark sound and quality
- and if you're connecting the MDAC & DAC1 'together' - the output of one connected to an input of the other, which is how I still interpret your description, then you won't be comparing them. As I said before, apologies if I've misunderstood your proposed configuration.

.

Hi Chris

Firstly, although I have only quoted part of your reply I have read it all.

Always happy to receive comments and advice from members with relevant knowledge and experience but I am not someone who just takes things on face value, they have to make some sort of sense to me when I apply my often more limited knowledge and experience.

So sorry if I misunderstood you but I believed you were inferring that the MDAC was the only DAC worth buying which if true would be IMO bad advice as for example, to date, very few people have actually seen or heard it and it is still not generally available.

A little more background regarding my thinking on connecting, at least initially, my Benchmark DAC1 USB to the digital output of the MDAC.

I also have a DacMagic with has digital outputs.

Quoting from the DacMagic User Manual 'The digital outputs allow a digital recording device to be connected. These outputs loop or pass-through unprocessed digital audio from the selected digital input'.

It is this digital output I have connected to the co-axial input on the Benchmark providing two additional inputs and 'conversion' from/to co-axial/optical.

The DacMagic is also connect to my amp (aux) via the balanced XLR outputs so can IMO also provide a convenient way of comparing the two DACs if required.

When I saw the 'digital outputs' on the diagram of the back of the MDAC I thought this might provide a similar facility.

JohnW pointed out that 'The MDAC will De-jitter the SPDIF feed to the DAC1' via this output so I was trying to clarify if this makes it unsuitable for my intended use.

Things have now moved on as one of my reasons for considering the MDAC was the remote control but, if I have read the User Manual correctly, it would be of limited use to me.

Other than the information display (I do have a weakness for OLED displays and find them hard to resist) I would need to be confident that the MDAC sounds noticeably different, in a good way, to the Benchmark, before even considering it as a worthwhile upgrade.

I look forward to hearing the comments and views of owners/users as the MDAC becomes more widely available over the next few weeks.
 
I've heard lots of different dacs and digital replay systems and very few of them have made a good stab at my objective of reproducing real life.

I tend to listen for specific things within recordings as I find it makes it easier to have some form of memory between systems when they can't be compared side by side.
*****
And its based on a whole series of principles concepts and details which I've come to believe are highly relevant in digital replay, based on other dacs and systems I've heard, that aren't present in other dacs, and has received particularly good reports in comparison to other dacs by those who have been in the fortunate position to make a comparison.
*****
It would have been Sabre 32 based - either Buffalo or wyred for sound - and then I discovered John's design plans...

Hi Chris,

My objective in sound reproduction is the same as yours and have to say I've made very similar discoveries. Have been listening the Buffalo, was about to obtain the W4S but then found out about a very ambitious product, the MDAC.

I actually purchased another Sabre based product recently, OPPO BDP-95EU (helps a bit while waiting for the MDAC :). Very nice player for my surround environment, feeding active speakers in 4.0 configuration from it.
 
Hi JohnW

Thanks for the nices products, I will soon get the 8200DQ but still researching if the OLED, transformer update and latest software is already included. Thanks for all the internal information, which other brands never offer. I would just wish somebody would collect all the bits and pieces and put them into a structured order like a wiki. I think it would prevent you form answering the same questions again and again.

Chris

Hi Chris,

All DQ's are shipped with OLED and "New style" transformer from initial release.
 
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