Colin L
High-tech low-life
Fabricant's wig makes more sense and is more genuine that he is, and its a shocker.
A thread to catalogue the eloquence, dignity, diplomacy and wisdom of Boris Johnson III
- Thread starter Sue Pertwee-Tyr
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Fabricant's wig makes more sense and is more genuine that he is, and its a shocker.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I also think there is a world of difference between 'legitimate' avoidance of tax (eg offset against investments, or deductible against costs, or beneficial to both sides such as pensions and ISAs), and other forms of avoidance which skirt the edges of evasion - offshoring, blind trusts, dedicated avoidance 'investment' schemes, that sort of thing. Some of those things have in the past been shut down by HMRC because they were considered to have crossed the line - I recall one about investing in films, for example - because they serve no purpose other than to reduce the tax burden and wouldn't exist otherwise. I believe Sunak is up to his armpits in that sort of 'legal evasion' because they all are.
Stuart Frazer
pfm Member
I think Sunak missed an opportunity by not doing the honourable thing and resigning yesterday. Apparently, he contemplated it and even wrote a resignation letter. Was he talked out of resigning? No doubt Boris would have felt under even more pressure had Sunak gone.
For me, the Conservative party as a whole is now tainting itself by not forcing Boris and Sunak out of office. This will not go away, so I don't see the point of clinging on to Johnson/Sunak and Co.
For me, the Conservative party as a whole is now tainting itself by not forcing Boris and Sunak out of office. This will not go away, so I don't see the point of clinging on to Johnson/Sunak and Co.
Tony L
Administrator
We saw what they are with Owen Patterson. Why expect any more now?
Conservative Party: this product contains 100% Trump.
Stuart Frazer
pfm Member
I agree Tony. I never thought politics / government in this country could be so low and bad. Trouble is, most ordinary folk don't follow or care enough about what is going on. Can the opposition parties refuse to attend parliament? What would happen if there was no opposition for the Governments business?
Tony L
Administrator
To my mind it needs something of this level. At the next parliamentary session every single opposition MP should one by one stand up and state something along the lines of “The Prime Minister and the Chancellor have lied to the house, they have broken both the law and the Ministerial Code, and the party opposite is fully complicit in defending this criminality” and then go on strike until something changes.
My view is the Conservative Party is now so arrogant, rotten and corrupt it will actually take something like this to achieve a result. It is clear these people will not act with honour or integrity. They need forcing out. If I was an opposition MP I wouldn’t accept the current situation as a legitimate workplace.
Ponty
pfm Member
Tax avoidance schemes in which you participate and benefit = good
Tax avoidance schemes in which you don’t participate and benefit = bad
Years ago I recall loads of chaps at work doing the film thing, don’t think it really benefitted them when all was said and done.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
No one would notice the difference
Ponty
pfm Member
You may be right but honestly, I think most people are too busy getting on with their lives.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
It’s a lot simpler than that though. If you are, for example the Chancellor of the Exchequer and you are asked about your off shore tax arrangements, and if they are all above board both morally and legally, why not make them available to democratic scrutiny?
Ponty
pfm Member
As long as they are legal, the tax affairs of anyone are not subject to the court of public opinion.
Brian
Eating fat, staying slim
It would be an hilarious thread if not so bloody serious.
I seriously doubt many dislike the tories and their ideology more than I do, yet people refuse to support what it takes to get rid of them. Any fabricated excuse will do and it all makes 2010 and the LibDem role in the whole debacle even more shameful.
Some people never learn. The tories will win again in 2024.
I seriously doubt many dislike the tories and their ideology more than I do, yet people refuse to support what it takes to get rid of them. Any fabricated excuse will do and it all makes 2010 and the LibDem role in the whole debacle even more shameful.
Some people never learn. The tories will win again in 2024.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
Someone should tell David Cameron.
"I think some of these schemes – and I think particularly of the Jimmy Carr scheme – I have had time to read about and I just think this is completely wrong. People work hard, they pay their taxes, they save up to go to one of his shows. They buy the tickets. He is taking the money from those tickets and he, as far as I can see, is putting all of that into some very dodgy tax avoiding schemes. That is wrong. There is nothing wrong with people planning their tax affairs to invest in their pension and plan for their retirement – that sort of tax management is fine. But some of these schemes we have seen are quite frankly morally wrong."
The scheme Jimmy Carr used was completely legal.
AnilS
pfm Member
I have just seen the Fabricant interview.
Seriously!!!!!!!
I'm not a violent person at all, but please leave me alone in a small room with him. I may need help to have his teeth removed from my fists however.
I'll leave him enough voice to call the emergency services.
Hold on .....
Seriously!!!!!!!
I'm not a violent person at all, but please leave me alone in a small room with him. I may need help to have his teeth removed from my fists however.
I'll leave him enough voice to call the emergency services.
Hold on .....
Tony L
Administrator
You spout this bullshit every time. Please name those who are not Tories who are also not voting tactically against them in marginal seats. Let us see these evil people that haunt your nightmares.
PS As a Brexiter/Brexit apologist you have damaged your beloved Labour far more than anyone else here. As a ‘Gillian Duffy’ you are part of the reason they are now neutered and unable to stand up to right-wing ideology. You helped create the fence of indecision that has destroyed them.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
And how do we know they are legal. Are we expected to take their word for it? Only that word isn't worth very much any more, is it?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
You seem to want to forget the moral question of a chancellor imposing increasing tax rises on the electorate at the same time and reducing his own tax.
Just because it’s legal, don’t make it right.
Profiting from Slavery was legal
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Bullshit. You're twisting my words and your insinuation is unpleasant. There are legitimate reasons why some tax might be avoided, and it's when the government wishes to incentivise people to do things like: invest in their businesses, make savings, take out a pension, and so-on. These are all legitimate reasons for tax avoidance, explicitly sanctioned by government because they also meet a government objective and, down the line, improve the economy or reduce the burden on public expenditure. And these are the ones I specifically referred to. As it happens, the only one I participate and (hopefully) will benefit from, is a pension, but I certainly would not criticise anybody who takes out an ISA, or uses their business deductions appropriately.
Your colleagues' schemes on the film scam, however, were found out. Maybe they didn't benefit because they were wound up, IIRC lots of people accrued liabilities and penalties, or maybe they didn't do well because the people running the scam organised it that way, but they were scams on the taxman (and possibly the punters, too), and that's how I perceive many of these 'legitimate' avoidance schemes.
The Far North
pfm Member
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