A thread to catalogue the eloquence, dignity, diplomacy and wisdom of Boris Johnson III

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

The alt-right, of which Johnson’s Conservative Party is a clear example, find everything a threat hence their reliance on vote-rigging, propaganda, fake news etc. The Steve Bannon rewrite of Joseph Goebbels rule-book is remarkably well thumbed in No 10; Lynton Crosby, Andy Coulson, Dominic Cummings etc all knew exactly how to subvert and misrepresent democracy. There were certainly many smears against Corbyn, which is exactly a leader of a far higher calibre is always required to counter them.

Sadly Corbyn just didn’t have the required skillset to fight such smears with coherent arguments and firm unambiguous positions. Sitting and endlessly dithering on a fence of ‘constructive ambiguity’ wins no friends in any camp. He was the left’s equivalent of Theresa May; a hapless leader without any relevant experience or discernible communication skills.

You don't fight these smears with coherent arguments. It doesn't work. Starmer is being smeared over Savile at the moment. He has clearly, coherently and robustly rebutted the arguments in Parliament and they've been reported in the media. The Tories just double down on it. Sooner or later, the lie sticks to him and the smear has succeeded. It wasn't that Corbyn was ineffective, it's that that tactic is ineffective.

 

[Tony L]

You don't fight these smears with coherent arguments. It doesn't work. Starmer is being smeared over Savile at the moment. He has clearly, coherently and robustly rebutted the arguments in Parliament and they've been reported in the media. The Tories just double down on it. Sooner or later, the lie sticks to him and the smear has succeeded. It wasn't that Corbyn was ineffective, it's that that tactic is ineffective.

We are in a very different place now, Johnson’s Tories are now polling worse than even Corbyn’s Labour so I expect them to play very dirty. I suspect and certainly hope most people have the intelligence to see just how fundamentally corrupt, dishonest and immoral the modern Conservative Party is. Even their own press is turning against them at present. Also bare in mind much of the issues Corbyn faced (aside from being totally wrong on Brexit) originated from his own party and his own benches. Labour really can’t blame anyone else for Labour.

 

[ks.234]

We are in a very different place now, Johnson’s Tories are now polling worse than even Corbyn’s Labour so I expect them to play very dirty. I suspect and certainly hope most people have the intelligence to see just how fundamentally corrupt, dishonest and immoral the modern Conservative Party is. Even their own press is turning against them at present. Also bare in mind much of the issues Corbyn faced (aside from being totally wrong on Brexit) originated from his own party and his own benches. Labour really can’t blame anyone else for Labour.

I think the fact that the smears against Starmer are coming from the Tories, whereas the smears against Corbyn were from his own party, is one significant difference.

 

[Caledon1297]

https://twitter.com/larryandpaul/status/1489148311294595072?cxt=HHwWgMCyifqfwqopAAAA

 

[Tony L]

I think the fact that the smears against Starmer are coming from the Tories, whereas the smears against Corbyn were from his own party, is one significant difference.

Yes, I think they have aligned far better behind Starmer, so far at least. There is still the inevitable factionalism and I do wish Starmer would bring the likes of RLB, Dawn Butler etc back to the front-line even if I suspect the decision to keep Corbyn outside may be strategically wise.

 

[ks.234]

Yes, I think they have aligned far better behind Starmer, so far at least. There is still the inevitable factionalism and I do wish Starmer would bring the likes of RLB, Dawn Butler etc back to the front-line even if I suspect the decision to keep Corbyn outside may be strategically wise.

As far as the Labour Party is concerned, Bailey and Butler et al are as just much the enemy as was Corbyn. Recent rule changes have made their positions even more marginalised. Starmer will never bring to likes of B&B into the front line. He will not be allowed to.

 

[Brian]

You don't fight these smears with coherent arguments. It doesn't work. Starmer is being smeared over Savile at the moment. He has clearly, coherently and robustly rebutted the arguments in Parliament and they've been reported in the media. The Tories just double down on it. Sooner or later, the lie sticks to him and the smear has succeeded. It wasn't that Corbyn was ineffective, it's that that tactic is ineffective.

Yes, this is actually spot on.

 

[Brian]

The alt-right, of which Johnson’s Conservative Party is a clear example, find *everything* a threat hence their reliance on vote-rigging, propaganda, fake news etc. The Steve Bannon rewrite of Joseph Goebbels rule-book is remarkably well thumbed in No 10; Lynton Crosby, Andy Coulson, Dominic Cummings etc all knew exactly how to smear, subvert, distort and erode democracy and accountability.

There were certainly many smears against Corbyn, sadly he just didn’t have the required skillset to fight such smears with coherent arguments and firm unambiguous positions. Sitting and endlessly dithering on a fence of ‘constructive ambiguity’ wins no friends in any camp. He was the left’s equivalent of Theresa May; a hapless leader without any relevant experience or discernible communication skills.

What about Miliband? Was he too a hapless leader without the skillset needed to fight Tory lies and smears, or was he a decent enough Labour leader who would have been a better PM than any tory and who would not have called a referendum on leaving the EU? He lost 40 seats in Scotland and that’s supported pretty much universally here, so I have to assume overall he’s considered as poor or worse than Corbyn, who came close to winning an election.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Miliband was torpedoed by his own party, including my own MP, who thought he was the wrong Miliband, they wanted slimy Miliband, not gawky Miliband.

 

[Tony L]

What about Miliband? Was he too a hapless leader without the skillset needed to fight Tory lies and smears, or was he a decent enough Labour leader who would have been a better PM than any tory and who would not have called a referendum on leaving the EU?

I like the guy, but yes, he was similarly clearly not cut out for leadership. Some people are just far more suited to background roles, and that in no way diminishes them. Corbyn and Milliband were decent backbench MPs, maybe even ministerial-grade, but certainly not natural leaders. Just compare either to say Obama, Caroline Lucas, Nicola Sturgeon etc to see how far from that grade they fall. The left & centre need a totally different type of leadership to the right, who seem happy to fall inline behind real monsters, crooks and spivs (Nixon, Thatcher, Reagan, Bush, Trump, Johnson etc).

 

[gavreid]

Munira Mirza, the Downing Street head of policy, has resigned over Boris Johnson’s Jimmy Savile attack on Keir Starmer. Mirza, who has worked with Johnson for 14 years and who he named as one of the five women who have most inspired him, quit this afternoon.

In a letter to the Prime Minister, Mirza writes:

‘I believe it was wrong for you to imply this week that Keir Starmer was personally responsible for allowing Jimmy Savile to escape justice. There was no fair or reasonable basis for that assertion. This was not the usual cut and thrust of politics; it was an inappropriate and partisan reference to a horrendous case of child sex abuse. You tried to clarify your position today but, despite my urging, you did not apologise for the misleading impression you gave.’

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/exclusive-boris-s-policy-chief-quits-over-jimmy-savile-slur

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...chief-quits-over-pms-scurrilous-savile-remark

 

[Barrymagrec]

So, limits to even what a Johnson acolyte will put up with, perhaps all is not yet lost.

 

[MUTTY1]

I wonder to what greater depths he can crawl to before he’s gone?

 

[TheDecameron]

Munira Mirza, the Downing Street head of policy, has resigned over Boris Johnson’s Jimmy Savile attack on Keir Starmer. Mirza, who has worked with Johnson for 14 years and who he named as one of the five women who have most inspired him, quit this afternoon.

In a letter to the Prime Minister, Mirza writes:

‘I believe it was wrong for you to imply this week that Keir Starmer was personally responsible for allowing Jimmy Savile to escape justice. There was no fair or reasonable basis for that assertion. This was not the usual cut and thrust of politics; it was an inappropriate and partisan reference to a horrendous case of child sex abuse. You tried to clarify your position today but, despite my urging, you did not apologise for the misleading impression you gave.’

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/exclusive-boris-s-policy-chief-quits-over-jimmy-savile-slur

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...chief-quits-over-pms-scurrilous-savile-remark

She’s decided they’re not going to hang together and is salvaging some remains of her personal profile before her name appears on police records? If she thinks smearing Starmer is the worst thing her paymaster has done she’s pretty screwed up herself. Would be good to get a list of her previous smears and sound bites put into Johnson’s mouth.

 

[TheDecameron]

Stormont has just gone down. More chaos to come from this shower of extremists in Westminster and their hangers in in Belfast. A leadership and authority vacuum presided over by Trump-Savile Johnson.

 

[Barrymagrec]

Some days just nothing goes right......

 

[Darmok]

Some days just nothing goes right......

End of days?

 

[Graham B]

Take into account the interest rate rise and the energy cap rise also announced today, and maybe some of their electorate might finally realise it’s the end of the tories supposed claim to being good at managing….well, anything.

 

[Finnegan]

That’s Munira Mirza late of the Revolutionary Communist Party. The RCP were a tiny, sinister, completely bat shit crazy sect who existed in the 1990’s and took the most bizarre and contrary positions on every conceivable issue (the NHS was an arm of the state and shouldn’t be supported, ‘free speech’ for fascists, the Krays were ‘working class heroes’ etc).

In reality the RCP were hard-right libertarians. They were bankrupted in 1997 when ITN sued them after they claimed that ITN’s pictures of emaciated Bosnian Muslims in a Serbian concentration camp were faked. Their current incarnation include The Spectator’s Brendan O’Neil and former Provisional IRA cheerleader Claire (now Baroness) Fox, who was formerly of Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party and who once asserted Gary Glitter’s ‘right’ to download child porn. You could not make this surreal shit up, you really couldn’t.

 

[TheDecameron]

Munira will be counting on getting her job back at the court of Prime Minister Sunak quite soon.