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$170 Billion and Counting: The Cost of Brexit for the U.K.

Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
OK, but you're in danger of shooting the messenger here. Impugning Dunt is fair enough, but deflects from the real issue, which is that the points he makes are, er, real issues. And issues that Brexit enthusiasts either aren't aware of, haven't considered in any depth, or hope they can surmount through a mixture of optimism, pig-headedness or simply not listening.
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No shoots fired from here, just observations. It's not for any remainexiters to be enthusiastic about imo -thats all just noise - very much like my own.

But it absolutely is for the Govt and the sleeping giant that is the Civil Service to implement on our behalf, and also be held accountable for. But, not at every turn headline and tweet.

We will all be watching. Some worth more hope than others. Certainly no celebrations or parties here for any politics - although it is t'other half birthday today, so we are out for dinner.

I am told that today is the most depressing day of the year, not least because its the day that the post Xmas credit card bill roll in (for many)

Quite a nice day here so far, chatting to my French and German colleagues about car automation systems deal, and tinkering on PFM in the quieter moments.
 
sean99 said:
This is very similar to the warnings from Sir Ivan Rogers

I think this is perhaps the year in which we find out whether experts are worth paying attention to.
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I think next year will be more telling, once things have settled down. Or not.
 
The non-bonging Big Ben farce is a fitting tribute and Fintan O’Toole hits the nail on the head again-

“The problem with a revolt against imaginary oppression is that you end up with imaginary freedom. How do you actually show that the yoke of Brussels has been lifted? You can’t bring prawn cocktail-flavoured crisps back into the shops, or release stout British fishermen from the humiliation of having to wear hair nets at work on the high seas, or unban donkey rides on beaches, or right any of the other great wrongs that fuelled anti-EU sentiment – because all of it was make-believe. And so is the golden age to come”.
 
stephen bennett said:
How will our resident Labour supporting leavers be celebrating on the 31st now they are getting the Tory Brexit they voted for?

Bunging a buck for a bong with Boris? Rollicking with Raab? Partying with Patel? Knocking about with Kwarteng? Frolicking with Francois? Coming with Cummings?

How will you be marking the day that your dreams come true?

Stephen
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Dreams ?

You are joking.

The most amusing thing is that you, and maybe others, think that it's that key to life, enjoyment and everything. Could it be, in farthest reaches of your reality, that many could just not give a toss about this shit that keeps so many awake?

Most do have lives outside your scenarios of doom. Accept it. They are not automatically bigots etc. To even suggest otherwise really shows that it's more your gig than theirs....
 
TheDecameron said:
The non-bonging Big Ben farce is a fitting tribute and Fintan O’Toole hits the nail on the head again-

“The problem with a revolt against imaginary oppression is that you end up with imaginary freedom. How do you actually show that the yoke of Brussels has been lifted? You can’t bring prawn cocktail-flavoured crisps back into the shops, or release stout British fishermen from the humiliation of having to wear hair nets at work on the high seas, or unban donkey rides on beaches, or right any of the other great wrongs that fuelled anti-EU sentiment – because all of it was make-believe. And so is the golden age to come”.
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That'll be the same Fintan O'Toole who got a bit gnashy when the EU threw its weight around with Ireland a while back. He didn't care so much for the EU then, for sure.

I can't help but wonder if, like Dunt, he's found a good living in Brexit bashing.
 
guest said:
Dreams ?

You are joking.

The most amusing thing is that you, and maybe others, think that it's that key to life, enjoyment and everything. Could it be, in farthest reaches of your reality, that many could just not give a toss about this shit that keeps so many awake?

Most do have lives outside your scenarios of doom. Accept it. They are not automatically bigots etc. To even suggest otherwise really shows that it's more your gig than theirs....
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Brexit trumps everything for some.

Especially to those who know the Tories have caused the problems they are facing, yet still voted them in ‘to get Brexit done’.

So, yes. For some it’s been a long held dream to leave the EU. I assume they’ll be celebrating.

Stephen
 
guest said:
Dreams ?

You are joking.

The most amusing thing is that you, and maybe others, think that it's that key to life, enjoyment and everything. Could it be, in farthest reaches of your reality, that many could just not give a toss about this shit that keeps so many awake?

Most do have lives outside your scenarios of doom. Accept it. They are not automatically bigots etc. To even suggest otherwise really shows that it's more your gig than theirs....
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Ok, the ones who are not bigots are willfully ignorant. Ignorance, generally, under UK law is not a defence...
 
ff1d1l said:
Ok, the ones who are not bigots are willfully ignorant. Ignorance, generally, under UK law is not a defence...
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Not sure how uk law is relevant to your point. Unless you are suggesting putting on trial those who see different to your sage ways? But you do illustrate mine perfectly. Arrogance trumps ignorance every time.

Guess they should all be smart fiddlers like you. Wouldn't the world then just be a better place. :rolleyes:

Whatever.
 
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stephen bennett said:
Brexit trumps everything for some.

Especially to those who know the Tories have caused the problems they are facing, yet still voted them in ‘to get Brexit done’.

So, yes. For some it’s been a long held dream to leave the EU. I assume they’ll be celebrating.

Stephen
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'Some' is the key word there. Others seem confused by that notion. I think solipsism is the psychological term applicable.
 
guest said:
I read most of it. No real revelations there , i thought, just the comentariart at work making making a decent living:

Not sure they'd bother replying , seeing as its a editorial by someone who seems a bit of a chameleon to say the least, but is carving out a lucrative slice for himself from his current and changed stance,

https://semipartisansam.com/tag/ian-dunt/

<<Dunt is the go-to Remainer for political TV producers and he has even written a book lobbying MPs to obstruct a proper Brexit. It’s a very clever career move, considering he was until recently a vocal Brexiteer…

As recently as February this year, Dunt wrote: “I despise the EU”. In May this year he bemoaned the “Faceless EU officials running the country”. In 2014 Dunt wrote: “The idea any left winger could support the EU is a constant source of bafflement for me”. And in 2013 he publicly stated his desire to leave the EU, predicting he and his fellow Leavers would lose a referendum.

How does Dunt explain this most audacious of u-turns, an apparently avowed Brexiteer becoming the darling of the Remain cause? You have to salute him for ruthlessly exploiting the dearth of talent on the Remain side and forging a lucrative, high-profile studio talking head role.>>

I guess the other comentator could be a tad jealous of Dunt's financial savvy to exploit the divided situation for gain, flipping sides when it suits. But Sam HOOPER does seem balanced and informed, and consistent.
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The quoted bit is from far-right website Guido Fawkes so I was sceptical at first, but it does check out:

https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/464018702606688256?lang=en

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2011/11/07/comment-the-left-must-abandon-the-eu

Dunt explains himself here:

https://iandunt.com/2017/08/08/my-role-in-the-great-brexit-conspiracy/
I don’t criticise Brexit because I am passionately in love with Europe. I am actually very wary of it. I criticise Brexit because I find the EU vastly superior to the moral and strategic inadequacy of British reactionaries. The choice between EU membership and Ukip’s Britain is like a choice between a rainy day by the seaside or a hot date with Freddy Krueger. It’s not a difficult decision to make.
...
My euroscepticism is based on an instinctive concern about centralised power. This demands that wherever possible you try to localise decision-making, so that those who are impacted on by a power have a hand in formulating it. I still think that is a decent principle upon which to think about constitutional issues.
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It's ironic, given the amount of time Dunt's spent slagging him off, that this position isn't a million miles away from Corbyn's (7/10 for the EU).

Of course, all of this is irrelevant to the points Dunt makes in his article about the complexities of agreeing a trade deal with the EU.
 
droodzilla said:
The quoted bit is from far-right website Guido Fawkes so I was sceptical at first, but it does check out:

https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/464018702606688256?lang=en

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2011/11/07/comment-the-left-must-abandon-the-eu

Dunt explains himself here:

https://iandunt.com/2017/08/08/my-role-in-the-great-brexit-conspiracy/

It's ironic, given the amount of time Dunt's spent slagging him off, that this position isn't a million miles away from Corbyn's (7/10 for the EU).

Of course, all of this is irrelevant to the points Dunt makes in his article about the complexities of agreeing a trade deal with the EU.
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Another journalist who campaigned vociferously for years and years against the EU and the UK's membership of it, and who then campaigned articulately for our retention of membership over the apparent impossibility of sorting out matters of trade, was the late Christopher Booker.
 
TheDecameron said:
“The problem with a revolt against imaginary oppression is that you end up with imaginary freedom. How do you actually show that the yoke of Brussels has been lifted? You can’t bring prawn cocktail-flavoured crisps back into the shops, or release stout British fishermen from the humiliation of having to wear hair nets at work on the high seas, or unban donkey rides on beaches, or right any of the other great wrongs that fuelled anti-EU sentiment – because all of it was make-believe. And so is the golden age to come”.
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I suspect plenty of people that experience imaginary oppression will do a similarly good job of experiencing imaginary freedom.

More point missing than nail hitting.
 
As was very well stated last week, as of next Friday, every single man woman and child in the EU will enjoy numerous benefits denied to us. We will effectively become second class citizens on our own continent.
 
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