miktec
retired
If you can't control yourself and direct your ire then polite society isn't for you.
Perhaps if the opposing side refrained from talking utter made up shite - things could reach the giddy heights of 'politeness'
If you can't control yourself and direct your ire then polite society isn't for you.
Still not debating. I've dealt with your type before - they went to bed with no story.Weak - must try harder
Still not debating. I've dealt with your type before - they went to bed with no story.
I've asked for a debate on how JK Rowling might be punching down but all you did was lash out like a child - hilariously at me for someone else's comment. You've proven you aren't looking to debate so I'm not sure why you are here, apart for an outlet for your anger maybe?Please feel free to post something factual and worthwhile that might engender a polite and constructive debate.
Failing that, the electric kettle thread promises to get very heated ....
I've asked for a debate on how JK Rowling might be punching down but all you did was lash out like a child - hilariously at me for someone else's comment. You've proven you aren't looking to debate so I'm not sure why you are here, apart for an outlet for your anger maybe?
No - you made this statement:
"But it's not a question of money, status or property - it's about an opinion on gender. Are you telling me that her kind aren't allowed an opinion?"
I challenged you on this because it illustrates malicious reasoning and a clear attempt to divert the conversation into aggressive territory.
Any exchanges after that can be grouped in the category 'pointless banter' - you don't want to debate anything really, just score meaningless points.
Up to you - but I can play this game until I get bored ... and move on to something more meaningful ... like electric kettles
...and you replied with this,
Again - the kind of simplistic reduction glibly trotted out by 'cancel outrage' ranters.
There is a whole world of difference between having an opinion and having access to a wide platform to spread that opinion
Denying the latter is not denying the former - get it now?
.. .which is not debating the question, rather just trying to shout me down with a comment that means very little but serves to pigeon-hole me for having the audacity to pass comment. It's all rather pointless really....
As is Sadowitz.Essentially this. I find Sadowitz mildly funny and approve of free speech but this forum is 97% white, middle-class, male, affluent. Who are we really to pontificate about such matters?
The EDL exercise their right to free expression by marching and shouting venom. You, and others, exercise your right to free expression by expressing your views through the medium of ballistic bananas.
I've asked for a debate on how JK Rowling might be punching down but all you did was lash out like a child - hilariously at me for someone else's comment. You've proven you aren't looking to debate so I'm not sure why you are here, apart for an outlet for your anger maybe?
You can't "prove" it one way or the other, because it's an opinion.Yes i can Petition urges Cardiff University to cancel Germaine Greer lecture | Germaine Greer | The Guardian
This "person" has come to the conclusion that Trans women are not biological females who have gone through female puberty, have the ability to give birth or go through female menopause. Her speech was cancelled because of her views. I would prefer those at the university to debate this subject & prove her views wrong rather than cancelling the speech. There is ample time at any university debate for questions & to dissagree with the speakers views.
Cancelling people based on personal agenda is dangerous. It needs to be aired & discussed for society to move forward.
Is she?She is ... punching down on a highly marginalised and vilified group ...
Who did JKR go "after"?From Sadowitz's tiny plantain to ballistic bananas to transphobia. What a classic PFM thread!
Ok, I’ll try. I don’t think it is complicated. JKR is is rich and famous. When she says something, it gets published by TV, internet and print news. She has a large megaphone for her views, whereas most of the trans people she has targeted do not. It would have been different had she gone specifically after, say, Caitlyn Jenner. She wouldn’t have been any more right, but at least she then would not be “punching down”.
The sciences of biology and human biology aren't opinion.You can't "prove" it one way or the other, because it's an opinion.
Opinion "a" - you can't be a woman unless you are a biological female with 2 X chromosomes.
Opinion "b" - you can become a woman even if you started otherwise, even if you started life with a Y chromosome and a penis.
You can't prove either right or wrong, it's like "proving" that the Mona Lisa is a better painting than "Sunflowers". If I don't think so, you can debate it all you like. I'll still say you're wrong.
You can't "prove" it one way or the other, because it's an opinion.
Opinion "a" - you can't be a woman unless you are a biological female with 2 X chromosomes.
Opinion "b" - you can become a woman even if you started otherwise, even if you started life with a Y chromosome and a penis.
You can't prove either right or wrong, it's like "proving" that the Mona Lisa is a better painting than "Sunflowers". If I don't think so, you can debate it all you like. I'll still say you're wrong.
Actually 'proving' that Opinion "a" is at least based on a very outdated concept when it comes to biological sex determination is pretty much a walk in the park ...
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sex-redefined-the-idea-of-2-sexes-is-overly-simplistic1/
"For many years, scientists believed that female development was the default programme, and that male development was actively switched on by the presence of a particular gene on the Y chromosome. In 1990, researchers made headlines when they uncovered the identity of this gene, which they called SRY. Just by itself, this gene can switch the gonad from ovarian to testicular development. For example, XX individuals who carry a fragment of the Y chromosome that contains SRY develop as males.
By the turn of the millennium, however, the idea of femaleness being a passive default option had been toppled by the discovery of genes that actively promote ovarian development and suppress the testicular programme—such as one called WNT4. XY individuals with extra copies of this gene can develop atypical genitals and gonads, and a rudimentary uterus and Fallopian tubes. In 2011, researchers showed that if another key ovarian gene, RSPO1, is not working normally, it causes XX people to develop an ovotestis—a gonad with areas of both ovarian and testicular development."
Plenty more where that came from
Who did JKR go "after"?
The sciences of biology and human biology aren't opinion.
@Hook in my view it's not progressive for men to feel entitled to, or actually, give away women's spaces and places.
Women and trans women face that, and are both marginalised groups.I just do my best to side with anyone who faces discrimination and hardship.
The issues touched on are more complex and high risk than than having a wee in public eg women in jail. If you want to increase related knowledge I recommend listening to the voices of a wide range of women and trans women. Especially those you are inclined to disagree with. For the record I have for over three decades, and still do.If I were a trans women, and I needed to use a public restroom, where could I go in peace? The men’s room isn’t an option. Does using the lady’s really place a hardship on the women using the space? I don’t know if there has been a poll, but I have to believe the vast majority of women would say no, it does not. And in the reverse situation, I simply can’t imagine any man objecting to a trans man sharing their restroom.
I believe harm reduction, and avoiding trampling marginalised groups in a well meaning but ill conceived attempt to lift a marginalised group, should be prioritised. This cuts both ways.For the record, I believe a trans woman is a woman, and a trans man is a man. There may be biological differences, but for me, that’s not what is important. The important thing for me is identity. It’s how we identify, and how society accepts or rejects our identity, that really matters.
Don't we all. Women and trans women face that, and are both marginalised groups.
This issues touched on are vastly more complex and high risk than than having a wee e.g. womens jails. If you want to improve your understanding I recommend listening to the voices of as wide a range of women and trans women as possible. Especially those you disagree with. For the record I have for over three decades, and still do.
The important thing for me is to avoid the trampling of marginalised groups in a well meaning but ill conceived attempt to lift a marginalised group. This cuts both ways.