Brexit: give me a positive effect... V

[eternumviti]

The WA was NOT signed when his back was against the wall. It was signed when he had more power at his disposal than any PM in recent history! Why do you persist in denying this? You don't give a ff for truth either.

And you've burrowed this particular bunny hole yourself, no help required from anyone else on here - and no need to keep digging.

The WA was agreed in October 2019, before Johnson had a majority, and when his back was against the wall. I assume that when it was 'agreed', he signed that agreement. It was put before Parliament in early 2020, when he had a majority.

 

[eternumviti]

Haven't you poted that brilliant piece of Brexit propaganda before?

I think that's what I said, yes.

 

[Colin Barron]

We - the Dutch - have always been open and said things as they are. This does not mean that we take that direction. We are no supporters at all of a federal europe.

Another country recently ran away, the only option they had after 50 years of polarizing bad politics.

More Europe and a federal Europe is the direction of EU.

 

[Seeker_UK]

Can you provide at least one reference of that paper-waving?

Here's Michel Barnier waving some paper. Does that count?

 

[Thorn]

More Europe and a federal Europe is the direction of EU.

Did you get that nonsense from the Daily Express or from The Sun?

 

[SteveS1]

I refer you to the reply that I gave to PsB a day or two ago. This is the pertinent bit;

Why should our people trust an organisation with a long record of subterfuge, deceit and double standards, of selectively turning a blind-eye to breaches of its own (international) treaty law, of open contempt for the most basic principles of democracy and the results of popular referenda, of power-creep and of progressive technocratic and legal imperialism? An organisation that imposed crippling austerity on Greece, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Ireland purely in order to save the deeply flawed single currency, and thus its own flawed and unpopular project, ERM and the consequent USE. An organisation that is staffed by people so arrogantly lacking in self-awareness that they permit their open, mocking contempt for the UK specifically and for democracy generally to be filmed and recorded for televised broadcast? What was it that Verhofstadt's appalling brown-noser of an official (who also happened to be Irish) said? The answer is at the foot of this post.

“We got rid of them. We kicked them out. We finally turned them into a colony, and that was our plan from the first moment.”

It was desperate nonsense when you posted it before and is of no relevance to my post. It would be like the EU highlighting Farage's insulting rants and showboating - the UK people would be affronted at the suggestion that he represented anything other than his own puffed up ego (well most of us would).

None of which excuses a PM signing an agreement he has no intention of honouring. Keep digging.

 

[Colin Barron]

Did you get that nonsense from the Daily Express or from The Sun?

The latest step change was at the mff and covid meeting, where it was agreed to raise debt of joint responsibility. This will not be a one off.

 

[eternumviti]

It was desperate nonsense when you posted it before and is of no relevance to my post. It would be like the EU highlighting Farage's insulting rants and showboating - the UK people would be affronted at the suggestion that he represented anything other than his own puffed up ego (well most of us would).

None of which excuses a PM signing an agreement he has no intention of honouring. Keep digging.

You're scrabbling.

I've got nothing to add.

 

[eternumviti]

Actually, I do. Incredulity that you think that what I wrote about the EU is 'desperate nonsense'. Every single thing is true, and all of it, and much much more, thoroughly documented.

You really are brainwashed if you think that the EU is some paragon of earthly virtue.

 

[SteveS1]

Actually, I do. Incredulity that you think that what I wrote about the EU is 'desperate nonsense'. Every single thing is true, and all of it, and much much more, thoroughly documented.

You really are brainwashed if you think that the EU is some paragon of earthly virtue.

My complaint is simple - you have posted defection to avoid the question you were asked as usual.

'Brainwashed' coming from a 'kipper, yes of course. You don't get to play that victim - no remainers that I have seen here have remotely suggested the EU is without flaws or problems. That's another straw man.

What was the UK's role with Greece, Portugal etc? Oh, that's right screaming and demanding that none of "our" money was used. Physician cure thyself.

Double standards? Deceit? Sounds like Johnson and the Leave campaign. The EU doen't have to be a paragon of virtue for our membership to be in our interest. Speaking of which, presumably you will be spurning any Trump overtures on the same basis? Thought not.

 

[Nick_G]

Actually, I do. Incredulity that you think that what I wrote about the EU is 'desperate nonsense'. Every single thing is true, and all of it, and much much more, thoroughly documented.

You really are brainwashed if you think that the EU is some paragon of earthly virtue.

No-one's saying that EV and you know it. Staying in the EU is infinitely preferable to what awaits us on January 1st 2021. Hell, a compromise 'soft-Brexit' is a much better option!

 

[SteveS1]

No-one's saying that EV and you know it. Staying in the EU is infinitely preferable to what awaits us on January 1st 2021.

Exactly. Moreover, if that had been the confimed option in a referendum, rather than the unicorns, it would have stood no chance.

 

[stephen bennett]

The WA was agreed in October 2019, before Johnson had a majority, and when his back was against the wall. I assume that when it was 'agreed', he signed that agreement. It was put before Parliament in early 2020, when he had a majority.

Where it should have been scrutinised and rejected if the Tories thought it was a bad idea.

May also ‘signed’ an agreement and that was changed.

The EU did not force Parliament to pass the bill into law. Either they didn’t understand the implications of it or did and voted for it anyhow.

Stephen

 

[Brian]

??? I was challenging ET's incorrect assertion that, because he had no majority (back to the wall etc.), Johnson had no choice but to sign the WA. The text was indeed drafted in Oct 2019. It was eventually passed by the UK parliament in January 2020, with Johnson's full support - and with the aid of the Tories' huge majority. It was actually 'signed' on 24th January 2020.

Just saying it was agreed in Oct, that’s all.

 

[Brian]

Show me where/when Barnier offered a Canada-style FTA and then withdrew the offer. My recollection is that Barnier agreed the desirability of a comprehensive FTA, and the UK said righto, we'll have the Canada one, which was never going to the agreed to by the EU

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51549662

Why not?

This is supposed to be a negotiation. Expecting total acceptance of EU red lines and dismissal of what the UK wants will lead to no deal.

 

[Colin L]

Why not?

This is supposed to be a negotiation. Expecting total acceptance of EU red lines and dismissal of what the UK wants will lead to no deal.

Why not?

Grant unfettered access to your markets on the same basis, to:

A) a country, the 6th largest economy right on your doorstep which is tightly integrated into your markets and services but which will not agree to mutually acceptable trading or social welfare standards or subsidy rules, or

B) the 10th largest economy, a substantial distance away, with very little trade with the EU, no services, not integrated into your supply chains and cannot unfairly undercut EU companies.

These are not the same thing and as I have said to ET, all FTA’s differ. For the UK (and you) to expect a Canada equivalent deal for the UK is cloud-cuckoo thinking.

 

[king brilliant]

Just saying it was agreed in Oct, that’s all.

Agreed by whom? Not by the UK parliament.

 

[king brilliant]

The WA was agreed in October 2019, before Johnson had a majority, and when his back was against the wall. I assume that when it was 'agreed', he signed that agreement. It was put before Parliament in early 2020, when he had a majority.

You've been caught out in three factual errors in a single post, yet you constantly move the goalposts and deflect from the errant nonsense you've posted. I'm not wasting any more of my time with you. So long, and thanks for all the straw men.

 

[SteveS1]

You've been caught out in three factual errors in a single post, yet you constantly move the goalposts and deflect from the errant nonsense you've posted. I'm not wasting any more of my time with you. So long, and thanks for all the straw men.

Hey how come you get off so lightly, no staying power.

 

[tuga]

Why not?

This is supposed to be a negotiation. Expecting total acceptance of EU red lines and dismissal of what the UK wants will lead to no deal.

The UK set the red lines and wants all of the benefits of being in without contributing and not be under the jurisdiction of the ECJ. Cake'n'eat it or outright piracy?