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Brexit: give me a positive effect... V

Discussion in 'off topic' started by Brian, Aug 22, 2020.

  1. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

  2. rbrown

    rbrown I think therefore I think I am

    i think we’re all trying to help you out. You seem to find this topic a bit advanced.
     
  3. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    That somehow remainers voted down the deal, they wouldn't have figured at all without a long list of Brexiteers voting against. Not a question of opinion, it's a fact. So that was the false narrative that you somehow thought was clever. To be honest Brian, you go to great lengths to be obtuse on this issue.
     
  4. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    I disagree. Other members are making points in a discussion. You are simply suggesting I don’t understand English.

    Have a stab at #1897.
     
  5. rbrown

    rbrown I think therefore I think I am

    No I suggested that you didn’t fully understand the meaning of conceit.
     
  6. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Remainers voted down what deal? Where did I say that? Show me the post.

    If you want to talk about how the voting went in parliament, ( I don’t and never have ) I watched it at the time and don’t recall the result of every vote that defeated May, nor do I have a list of the MPs who voted against her deal to check if they are remain or leave supporters. I was supportive of The Speaker throughout though, fwiw. Trying to keep these buggers in order and on the right side of the law is a job, imo.

    I’m not talking about the voting down of deals in parliament, I’m talking about remain voters in the electorate voting in a way that helped enable a tory govt. That’s because brexit is all about, and is only about, the bloody tory party.

    Goodnight
     
  7. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    Try engaging with the subject being discussed. Start with #1897.

    I take it you won’t be helping me with my language and computer skills?
     
  8. zarniwoop

    zarniwoop hoopy frood

    May was running scared of the ERG from the start which led to her red lines which made any favourable deal impossible.
     
  9. rbrown

    rbrown I think therefore I think I am

    No I think I’ve done my bit for now.
     
  10. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    The actuality that you meant to say.
     
  11. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    Why do you say that Mikey?
     
  12. Colin Barron

    Colin Barron pfm Member

    Steve, what you say is correct and we must thank the remainer vote in Westminster. They still had visions of a 2nd referendum or just forgetting there had been a referendum.
     
  13. SteveS1

    SteveS1 I heard that, pardon?

    Yes Colin, the last thing you would have wanted was a vote informed by real consequences rather than false promises, I get that.
     
  14. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    131 days left till membership benefits end. I’m actually really curious about what things are going to be like in January. The anti-Europe blame game will have to go into overdrive and of course “the enemies within” and those who didn’t “get ready for Brexit”. You’re prescriptions have run out and your treatment has been postponed? -You didn’t get ready for Brexit, luv.
     
  15. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    Out Parliamentary democracy has embedded in it the concept of a ‘loyal opposition’. The idea being to test and challenge the proposals of the elected government, to improve them and also to give a voice to those who didn’t vote for the party of government.

    Essentially, then, it is a cornerstone of UK parliamentary politics that dissent gets a voice, and the ‘losing’ side doesn’t just roll over and support the winning side in everything it proposes.

    Why should it be different for the post-referendum issues and proposals for Brexit?

    Those who argue that remainers should just suck it up, and stfu, ‘because democracy’ seem not to understand how our democracy is supposed to work.
     
  16. Brian

    Brian Eating fat, staying slim

    So you may help me out in future?

    Obviously leave supporters voted for brexit. Why would I want to insult other members by thinking they need to be reminded of that?

    The important bit you fail to grasp, is that remain supporters had the chance to vote for a second referendum, or for revoking A50 but chose not to take either despite their opposition to brexit. Try #1897.

    If leave supporters were able to ditch their normal choice of vote to support the tories and to get brexit, why were remain supporters unable to support Labour and a second referendum, or even the LibDems and a revoking of A50? Why didn’t they organise themselves and actually do something?

    By a happy coincidence, you are the person who has maintained for years that a majority never did support leaving the EU, that there are many more remain supporters than leave supporters. What were these people doing with their vote on GE day Dec 2019? I’ll tell you. Many of them were enabling a tory landslide.

    You know I’m right, it’s why you and some others are wriggling so much. It’s called avoiding responsibility. The chance was there and it was clear.
     
    MVV likes this.
  17. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    Toss.
    And a waste of time engaging with.
    Edit...
    But while we have "democracy denying stunts" in our mind, who can forget the grandaddy of them all, the illegal prorogation of parliament...
     
    Sue Pertwee-Tyr likes this.
  18. Sue Pertwee-Tyr

    Sue Pertwee-Tyr Well, I can dream, can’t I?

    It’s a bit more complicated than that, I think, though. It required a certain amount of tactical voting, and the Lib Dems didn’t make that any easier by their anti-Labour positioning. All the Tories needed to do was fragment the opposition. It’s a bit unfair to put the blame on the voters, faced with several options, when really it should have been for the pro-remain parties to put up a coherent front which people could have got behind. I think, had that happened, the outcome might have looked different. We’ll never know, so speculation is a bit pointless, but my main point is that it’s not right to blame the voters when the pro-remain parties all spectacularly fail to offer something they can work with.
     
    Brian, deanf and Nick_G like this.
  19. ff1d1l

    ff1d1l pfm Member

    Sadly this.
     
  20. TheDecameron

    TheDecameron Unicorns fart glitter.

    CWS, a potential positive effect,

    [​IMG]
     
    Colin L, ff1d1l and Nick_G like this.

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