Trump Part 7

[vuk]

It's not perceived as sexist over here. Many women are happy to take care of the man and the children and in return expect the man to earn the money to put food on the table.

you seem to be having a conversation with an imaginary poster. the issue was verbal abuse and aggression toward women.


vuk.

 

[DonQuixote99]

It's not perceived as sexist over here. Many women are happy to take care of the man and the children and in return expect the man to earn the money to put food on the table.

They don't appear to see that as demeaning - just the best way to live together and to raise a family.

I don't see a problem with it. Where sexism raises it's head is when the husband doesn't respect the wife for the work that she is doing.

Now by all means tell me that's sexist. I couldn't care less. It appears to make people happy here and children aren't farmed out to foreign nannies for three hours a day and get healthy home cooked meals prepared from fresh ingredients.

I thought we were talking about equality in the workplace. Now it's sex role expectations that preclude women from even being in the workplace? So that's the teamwork problem--being on the team while female?

 

[claire.foxx]

A: Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, racist white nationalism.

Q: Name three things often seen together in the Oval Office.

Latest bit of evidence: someone looked up this book, “The Camp of the Saints,” that Steve Bannon often references. It's a work of fiction that sets up brown people as a plague and an invasion, needing extermination. Really. That's what it is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ints-immigration_us_58b75206e4b0284854b3dc03?

There was a Book by William Nicholson (now a popular screenplay writer) called The Long March or something which I think was dramatised by the BBC and caused a stink with the odious author of this grotesque work. Nicholson, however, looked deeper at the causes of the migration which Jean Raspail sidestepped -- Nicholson's story concerned a Muslim leader from the Sudan who led a quarter million Africans on a 3,000-mile march towards Europe with the cry "We are poor because you are rich." -- a line many oppressed groups have been saying for years. I'd not disagree with them. Our chickens are coming home to roost.

Trump Pence and Bannon are desperately trying to avoid the reality that Caucasians will be a minority in the USA in the next 50 years which is awesomely positive news (source Al Jazeera.). Also this is backed up with raw US census data here... (but be quick Trump administration is closing a lot of .gov sites it does not like).

 

[DonQuixote99]

There was a Book by William Nicholson (now a popular screenplay writer) called The Long March or something which I think was dramatised by the BBC and caused a stink with the odious author of this grotesque work. Nicholson, however, looked deeper at the causes of the migration which Jean Raspail sidestepped -- Nicholson's story concerned a Muslim leader from the Sudan who led a quarter million Africans on a 3,000-mile march towards Europe with the cry "We are poor because you are rich." -- a line many oppressed groups have been saying for years. I'd not disagree with them. Our chickens are coming home to roost.

Trump Pence and Bannon are desperately trying to avoid the reality that Caucasians will be a minority in the USA in the next 50 years which is awesomely positive news (source Al Jazeera.). Also this is backed up with raw US census data here... (but be quick Trump administration is closing a lot of .gov sites it does not like)

It's positive news IF we have reason to think that the non-whites will behave better as wielders of majority power than whites have. But I'm somewhat skeptical, and sniff a possibility of race-based favor in this remark.

I regard the shifting of the racial-domination shoe from one foot to another as happenstance, not a thing to either be celebrated, or viewed as a tragic disaster.

 

[vuk]

A: Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, racist white nationalism.

Q: Name three things often seen together in the Oval Office.

Latest bit of evidence: someone looked up this book, “The Camp of the Saints,” that Steve Bannon often references. It's a work of fiction that sets up brown people as a plague and an invasion, needing extermination. Really. That's what it is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ints-immigration_us_58b75206e4b0284854b3dc03?

don.

that's not some obscure book, as your comment seems to imply, but a "best seller". the author has earned prizes and praise from french "intellectuals". i was given a copy as an undergrad and couldn't get past about 100 pages (hard to recall exactly). i still don't understand how anyone could find it tolerable, let alone consider it a great work. it is "challenging" in the way eating worms would be in he context of dining.


vuk.

 

[droodzilla]

A: Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, racist white nationalism.

Q: Name three things often seen together in the Oval Office.

Latest bit of evidence: someone looked up this book, “The Camp of the Saints,” that Steve Bannon often references. It's a work of fiction that sets up brown people as a plague and an invasion, needing extermination. Really. That's what it is.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...ints-immigration_us_58b75206e4b0284854b3dc03?

A great favourite with white supremacists everywhere if the Amazon reviews are anything to go by. Looks like Bannon really does fantasise about end-times style battle between the "Christian West" and the Muslim world. And he has the ear of the man with his finger on the nuclear button.

 

[droodzilla]

don.

that's not some obscure book, as your comment seems to imply, but a "best seller". the author has earned prizes and praise from french "intellectuals". i was given a copy as an undergrad and couldn't get past about 100 pages (hard to recall exactly). i still don't understand how anyone could find it tolerable.


vuk.

A bestseller since around 2011 (gee, I wonder why). The wiki page has some approving reviews on it from, among others, Hubert Selby Jr. Having scanned an online pdf of the novel I find it hard to imagine why - the writing quality looked pretty sh*t. Maybe it was just the translation, or maybe the French love a provocateur. Regardless of style the content is grim and it's shocking that Bannon takes it seriously.

 

[claire.foxx]

It's positive news IF we have reason to think that the non-whites will behave better as wielders of majority power than whites have. But I'm somewhat skeptical, and sniff a possibility of race-based favor in this remark.

I regard the shifting of the racial-domination shoe from one foot to another as happenstance, not a thing to either be celebrated, or viewed as a tragic disaster.

There won't be any racial domination that's the point, it'll be too diluted. Americans are American, already made up of a wide selection of different races -- it's just a bunch of white supremacist blowhards with a last-gasp backup from the "Johns" that think America, a country pretty violently occupied by Europeans, is supposed to be white.

I take the view like many people who believe in true multiculturalism (rather than the kind of multiculturalism that leads to shit jobs by migrant labour as is seen in the UK) that it is white dominance that recycles white oppression, there are other forms of oppression but remove white oppression and you clear the way for the next problem to tackle. White Christo-fascists are trying to keep the pile all to themselves.

 

[vuk]

INow it's sex role expectations that preclude women from even being in the workplace?

...but, as merlin explained, they are happy with that arrangement.

to be fair though, some 3rd wave (or whatever we are up to) feminists are using similar logic to defend certain muslim practices.



vuk.

 

[claire.foxx]

It's so nice to be told by a white holidaying expat neanderthal male that everything is hunky-dory for women (who are too busy to speak for themselves because they are minding their place and staying at home raising kids and cooking nutritious food for their hard working husbands.)

Super. The end of sexism, right there.

 

[vuk]

A bestseller since around 2011 (gee, I wonder why). The wiki page has some approving reviews on it from, among others, Hubert Selby Jr. Having scanned an online pdf of the novel I find it hard to imagine why - the writing quality looked pretty sh*t. Maybe it was just the translation, or maybe the French love a provocateur. Regardless of style the content is grim and it's shocking that Bannon takes it seriously.

drood.

i was 19 when i made the attempt and it was in the original french (this was in montreal). i mostly remember feeling morally unclean and repulsed to such an extent that matters of literary style didn't really enter the equation.


vuk.

 

[vuk]

they are minding their place and staying at home raising kids and cooking nutritious food for their hard working husbands

...who also put the food on the table, in case you missed that in the post. maybe they hunted it down. these shifting sands of society are hard to keep up with.



vuk.

 

[Guest432]

It's so nice to be told by a white holidaying expat neanderthal male that everything is hunky-dory for women (who are too busy to speak for themselves because they are minding their place and staying at home raising kids and cooking nutritious food for their hard working husbands.)

Super. The end of sexism, right there.

Pretty sure my mother would disagree with that as she made the decision to stay at home and raise me and my brothers, my father supported that although that meant him also having to work as a taxi driver in the evenings as they were so skint.

Despite being 4' 10" she would also kick your skinny white privileged arse for calling her oppressed or minding her place.

In the real world partners work together to raise children and if the mother decides to stay at home that is a choice they make because they think it's best for the children.

 

[claire.foxx]

Pretty sure my mother would disagree with that as she made the decision to stay at home and raise me and my brothers, my father supported that although that meant him also having to work as a taxi driver in the evenings as they were so skint.

Despite being 4' 10" she would also kick your skinny white privileged arse for calling her oppressed or minding her place.

In the real world partners work together to raise children and if the mother decides to stay at home that is a choice they make because they think it's best for the children.

When the choices are made about what a woman gets to do and how far she gets to go in life long before she is even born then it's not exactly a choice that decision is made by a silent hand. Do you want to talk privilege? You just showed you got it in spades. A man about speaking about female equality on any woman's behalf kinda illustrates the point.

 

[Seeker_UK]

A man speaking on his mother behalf kinda illustrates the point.

Or tells me that, like my mum, she isn't on the Internet at all hours.

 

[vuk]

A mix of mall-riots, small amounts of violence, partying then back to the mind-numbing business of living in America.

a little taste of it today:

A planned “March 4 Trump” demonstration held at the city’s Martin Luther King Jr. Civic Center Park — several blocks from the University of California at Berkeley campus — escalated after fights broke out, which led to at least 10 arrests.

Photos and video from the afternoon showed police outfitted in riot gear, as shouting matches erupted within the crowd, which totaled a few hundred people, according to police. People could be seen kicking and hitting one another, either with their bare hands or with the signs they had been carrying.

Seven people received medical attention for injuries, but none needed or wanted to be taken to the hospital, police said.

Of the arrests, five were for battery, four for assault with a deadly weapon (including one person who had a dagger) and one for resisting arrest, according to Berkeley police.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...presidents-supporters/?utm_term=.0d9d917b790b

[mainstream media still capable of reporting on this sort of thing]



vuk.

p.s. are daggers a new hipster thing?

 

[Guest432]

A man about speaking about female equality on any woman's behalf kinda illustrates the point.

If that point is you are blinkered and on a man hating crusade then quite possibly.

Alternately I actually talk to my mother who has explained her choices in life and I am merely relaying them here.

 

[Kardhore]

When the choices are made about what a woman gets to do and how far she gets to go in life long before she is even born then it's not exactly a choice that decision is made by a silent hand. Do you want to talk privilege? You just showed you got it in spades. A man about speaking about female equality on any woman's behalf kinda illustrates the point.

You should also shut up then. Claire by name, but not by nature.

 

[claire.foxx]

If that point is you are blinkered and on a man hating crusade then quite possibly.

Alternately I actually talk to my mother who has explained her choices in life and I am merely relaying them here.

You should also shut up then. Claire by name, but not by nature.

I don't hate men. A little projection there I think.

Let's try to frame this in ways a man might not have his fragile masculinity hurt.

The aggression men find when confronted by feminism is absolutely essential. That's because of the sheer pervasiveness that surrounds patriarchy -- and males adopting a term like "feminism" in essence deciding what women think ("you should shut up then" - as above), say, feel, emote "spending all hours on the internet" (thanks a bunch, Sam) is so pervasive that men really have no basis to question it. This is the very essence of benefitting from a "status quo" men don't even know it's a status quo. It's simply just the norm. That is the "real world".

So men speaking about women's rights is hugely problematic, you are -- because society is designed to predispose men to positions of authority, power and financial advantage -- speaking from a pulpit, held up by a patriarchy and through a glass ceiling for women and a glass floor for men that you do not know even exists.

So while feminism is about gender equality (financial, sexual, societal etc) it's not about supporting, nursing or catering to fragile masculinity and letting them dictate how the conversation should be carried out and where it should go.

Men who give unsolicited advice about what a woman should or shouldn’t be saying are sexist chauvinists who just can’t stand that a woman should have a voice.

 

[MVV]

You should also shut up then. Claire by name, but not by nature.

Yeah, shut up bitch! Errr I mean..