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P&O Ferries Scandal

I know it`s been mentioned up thread but this deserves extra attention :-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-60801436

Spectacular own goal on the PR front from one of the (even) less pleasant Tories.
Love watching her get absolutely roasted. But what the f*ck made her think she could go down there and hijack the protest in any case? Either it demonstrates just how completely out of touch this government is (was there nobody around her to warn her of the stupidity of attending?) or they have just become so unimaginably cynical that she thought she could gain kudos from associating herself with the sacked seafarers. Either way, not good.
 
Love watching her get absolutely roasted. But what the f*ck made her think she could go down there and hijack the protest in any case? Either it demonstrates just how completely out of touch this government is (was there nobody around her to warn her of the stupidity of attending?) or they have just become so unimaginably cynical that she thought she could gain kudos from associating herself with the sacked seafarers. Either way, not good.
"I'm here for the people of Dover"
" No you're not you're here for PR"
Made my day.
 
Good Morning All,

As a fully paid up Nautilus member there isn't a great deal of 'factual' information at this point.

I don't think that anybody who has been replaced will be getting paid as little as £2.60 an hour as, at a minimum, an agency would need to be paying ITF rates as a minimum if only to avoid incurring hassle from the ITF. Having said this given the approach taken so far who knows.

The issue of crew familiarity with the vessels they are operating is certainly an area of concern particularly as they are passenger carrying vessels. God forbid a 'Scandanavian Star' or 'Costa Concordia' scale event should occur as the operators might struggle to demonstrate the vessels were adequately crewed.

Regards

Richard
 
Being widely reported that, as maritime agency workers are not subject to UK minimum wage laws, they are being paid as low as £2.60 p/h which AIUI, is about 10% of what the sacked staff were paid. Add in no pension, leave or sick pay obligations and it's trebles all round for the P&O board.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/po-ferries-new-foreign-crew-6830384
Ye Gods, if that is true, its thoroughly disgraceful. The implications are awful and will be the death knell for P&O anyway as any quality of service, safety etc will plummet. There will be another Herald of Free Enterprise incident. I still say that all staff should go one the sick on Monday. That would bring them to a total standstill.
 
Love watching her get absolutely roasted. But what the f*ck made her think she could go down there and hijack the protest in any case? Either it demonstrates just how completely out of touch this government is (was there nobody around her to warn her of the stupidity of attending?) or they have just become so unimaginably cynical that she thought she could gain kudos from associating herself with the sacked seafarers. Either way, not good.

There is a third option - a difficulty in linking successive policy and rule changes to this end-state. She had no idea just how much her party played a role in this happening.
 
Ye Gods, if that is true, its thoroughly disgraceful. The implications are awful and will be the death knell for P&O anyway as any quality of service, safety etc will plummet. There will be another Herald of Free Enterprise incident. I still say that all staff should go one the sick on Monday. That would bring them to a total standstill.
Do they have any permanent full time crew left to go on the sick?
 
There is a third option - a difficulty in linking successive policy and rule changes to this end-state. She had no idea just how much her party played a role in this happening.
If that was indeed the case, she has to be incredibly dense (not unusual for this government). I think she probably genuinely believed that her party’s policies benefit “hard working families.” I mean, Partygate aside, wouldn’t they actually have to believe their own bullshit to be able to regurgitate it with a straight face?
 
If that was indeed the case, she has to be incredibly dense (not unusual for this government). I think she probably genuinely believed that her party’s policies benefit “hard working families.” I mean, Partygate aside, wouldn’t they actually have to believe their own bullshit to be able to regurgitate it with a straight face?
The problem is that any talk of improving workers right and conditions is met with an ‘ah, but winter of discontent an all that’, ‘bloody unions’ and we’re back to ‘hard working families’. P&O will soon be forgotten and Elphicke will be re-elected
 
Ye Gods, if that is true, its thoroughly disgraceful. The implications are awful and will be the death knell for P&O anyway as any quality of service, safety etc will plummet. There will be another Herald of Free Enterprise incident. I still say that all staff should go one the sick on Monday. That would bring them to a total standstill.

Wish this was possible but it would be considered "unofficial industrial action" all it would take would be for anyone other than those taking part to find out, the knowledge would be passed on to management. I can well imagine fiends in high places agreeing to surveillance to see who is co-ordinating it. Almost inevitably local Union officials would be blamed and the full weight of the law brought down on the Union. In a small scale I have seen this happen, the threats and consequences are awful.
 
Remember that this fleet of ships was once Townsend Thorensen that went under and was bought out by the P&O business after a terrible accident, loading doors left open, water rushed in, ferry capsized lots of people died. see http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/march/6/newsid_2515000/2515923.stm
I had some shares in Townsesnd Thorensen so that I could get a discount on ferry trips across the channel. After P&O took over the discounts and perks etc changed to favour the frequent traveller (from what I understood) I also became more interested in ferry trips to Spain.
 
Bullshit. Why are directly equivalent P&O/DP World employees still in their jobs within the EU? I know you’ll do absolutely anything to defend trade unions, but the RMT (and others) called this one hopelessly wrong. The simple fact is employment is better protected in the EU than it is in post-Brexit UK. How many jobs need to be lost before the penny eventually drops? The whole point of Brexit was to create a low wage low tax economy. That is what the people who paid for it were buying.
No you are talking bullshit. It has nothing to do with brexit, neither did the `fire and rehire` at British Gas. I am sick to death of wasting my time as an RMT member for 38 years and a rep, having to respond to people who haven`t got a clue about international maritime practices or our own laws. It seems that there is a lot of hysterical remainers out there, who are making out that the actions of a parasite company, sacking its workforce, is somehow the fault of the Union that represents them. Shipping companies all over the world sail under `flags of convenience ` and pay as little as £2.50 an hour. With no sick pay or paid holidays. So stop talking bullshit. We are fighting for our members, you can side with the people attacking my fellow Union members and we wont forget these people who do this. I ain`t responding on this topic again, its to energy sapping. Thanks to the forum members who are on our side.SOLIDARITY.
 
Nice way a) to sell your union, and b) to misread my posts. If I were you I’d try and get the rest of society on side with you by making coherent arguments as, make no mistake, you need far wider public support. The trade union movement in the UK is way too weak to achieve anything without it.

PS This doesn’t impact my support for those who have lost their jobs. I still support both them and pretty much any mass action against this government, as I have stated many times upthread. I have little respect for the RMT (or any ‘Lexit’ idiots), but I’ll happily stand by anyone in the situation these workers find themselves. I am not your enemy no matter how you choose to frame things.
 
No you are talking bullshit. It has nothing to do with brexit, neither did the `fire and rehire` at British Gas. I am sick to death of wasting my time as an RMT member for 38 years and a rep, having to respond to people who haven`t got a clue about international maritime practices or our own laws. It seems that there is a lot of hysterical remainers out there, who are making out that the actions of a parasite company, sacking its workforce, is somehow the fault of the Union that represents them. Shipping companies all over the world sail under `flags of convenience ` and pay as little as £2.50 an hour. With no sick pay or paid holidays. So stop talking bullshit. We are fighting for our members, you can side with the people attacking my fellow Union members and we wont forget these people who do this. I ain`t responding on this topic again, its to energy sapping. Thanks to the forum members who are on our side.SOLIDARITY.

Are you sure about that? Leading Brexiteers didn't waste their time and money campaigning to make sacking people harder.

51949781822_76c54725a0_c.jpg
 
Are you sure about that? Leading Brexiteers didn't waste their time and money campaigning to make sacking people harder.

51949781822_76c54725a0_c.jpg
Not convinced.

It looks like it's more about the relative strength of national employment law (the Code du Travail in France):

https://www.thelocal.fr/20220318/why-did-po-ferries-axe-uk-jobs-but-keep-its-french-workers/

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/staff-replacing-sacked-po-ferries-workers-face-poverty-pay-union-claims

UK employment law (which has not changed since we left the EU) mandates notice periods, consultation and so on, but it all sounds much weaker than the hoops employers in France have to jump through. The legacy of Thatcher and New Labour.

In any case, P&O rode roughshod over UK employment law in this case.

I've learned a lot reading this thread, especially from @Richard Lines. I had no idea that seafarers' terms and conditions could be so appalling. The comments about some hourly rates being a fraction of the minumum wage are especially shocking.

Maybe that's where we should direct our anger. Like the RMT rep said, solidarity.
 
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Are you sure about that? Leading Brexiteers didn't waste their time and money campaigning to make sacking people harder.

51949781822_76c54725a0_c.jpg
Blaming this and just about everything baaad on brexit is counter productive for your mission. It has been explained by a few people this is nothing to do with brexit. If you want to target your anger you need to concentrate on those who grabbed at any reason they could in order to not vote Labour in 4 x GE’s, many of whom, from they post here would do the same again because they will not learn, nor accept responsibility.

Not convinced.

It looks like it's more about the relative strength of national employment law (the Code du Travail in France):

https://www.thelocal.fr/20220318/why-did-po-ferries-axe-uk-jobs-but-keep-its-french-workers/

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/staff-replacing-sacked-po-ferries-workers-face-poverty-pay-union-claims

UK employment law (which has not changed since we left the EU) mandates notice periods, consultation and so on, but it all sounds much weaker than the hoops employers in France have to jump through. The legacy of Thatcher and New Labour.

In any case, P&O rode roughshod over UK employment law in this case.

I've learned a lot reading this thread, especially from @Richard Lines. I had no idea that seafarers' terms and conditions could be so appalling. The comments about some hourly rates being a fraction of the minumum wage are especially shocking.

Maybe that's where we should direct our anger. Like the TU rep said, solidarity.
Exactly.

I think it may be helpful for members if you explain what solidarity means.
 
Blaming this and just about everything baaad on brexit is counter productive for your mission. It has been explained by a few people this is nothing to do with brexit. If you want to target your anger you need to concentrate on those who grabbed at any reason they could in order to not vote Labour in 4 x GE’s, many of whom, from they post here would do the same again because they will not learn, nor accept responsibility.


Exactly.

I think it may be helpful for members if you explain what solidarity means.

I don't agree and in your book solidarity only works one way. If you think Brexit wasn't designed to help move more people toward this kind of ease of fire culture, you're deluding yourself.
 


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