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P&O Ferries Scandal

flatpopely said:
Perhaps the Unions need to form their own party, not being flippant BTW.
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I don’t know about a new party for the reasons Finnegan suggests, but party politics aren’t the be all and end all. Graham’s focus on workplace organising looks promising to me. We’ll see I guess.
 
Tony L said:
Any action needs to be broad in scope IMO. It needs to be a mass kick back against the erosion of freedoms, human rights and civil liberties in all areas of life obviously including employment law, as well as the obvious double-standards and grift of those who govern us. It is IMHO high time for a ‘poll tax moment’. Something far bigger than just trade unions defending trade union members. It is time for us all to react against the shit that is poured down on us on a day to day basis.

One of the better posts on this thread so far was IMHO from @Monitor Gold 10 who made the point that many of us are not employees, we are not in mass-labour jobs, we are not trade union members etc. I am sure that is true, it certainly is for me. That is why I feel something has to happen that unifies us all against the corrupt self-interest that has long been rooted at the very heart of UK government and has sunk this country down to this thoroughly depressing point. These job losses are just another symptom of where UK politics is right now. It has to be about time for us all to call it out.
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Yes agree totally. We need a mass movement based around a set of universal rights. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights for example. The Tory Party and the Daily Mail would no doubt mount a propaganda campaign against it, probably by saying it’s led by a bunch of Marxists, or worse, Jeremy Corbyn, but who in their right mind, be they left, right or centre, could oppose anything in the UDHR?
 
Tony L said:
Any action needs to be broad in scope IMO. It needs to be a mass kick back against the erosion of freedoms, human rights and civil liberties in all areas of life obviously including employment law, as well as the obvious double-standards and grift of those who govern us. It is IMHO high time for a ‘poll tax moment’. Something far bigger than just trade unions defending trade union members. It is time for us all to react against the shit that is poured down on us on a day to day basis.

One of the better posts on this thread so far was IMHO from @Monitor Gold 10 who made the point that many of us are not employees, we are not in mass-labour jobs, we are not trade union members etc. I am sure that is true, it certainly is for me. That is why I feel something has to happen that unifies us all against the corrupt self-interest that has long been rooted at the very heart of UK government and has sunk this country down to this point. These job losses are just yet another symptom of where UK politics is right now. It has to be about time for us all to call it out. I’m certainly sick of it.
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It’s certainly true that union membership is way down from its high point in the 1970’s but membership is currently rising. And it’s true that the working class has changed in character as we now live in a largely post-industrial society. That however, is not to argue, as some do, that the working class has disappeared. The ‘we’re all middle class now’ argument. The mass workplaces are no longer collieries and shipyards, but call centres and the public sector.

What I believe we are witnessing are the morbid symptoms of a political and economic system in terminal decline- endless crises that it cannot extricate itself from. The world is literally burning down around us. Humanity, at least in the form of civilised society, is unlikely to endure for more than another century. Ten or twenty years ago this would have been perceived as an alarmist, even hysterical statement, not anymore.

But yes, you are right. The present situation cannot endure. Something better has to arise from the ashes or it’s all going down the drain, and faster than most of us expected.
 
Finnegan said:
It’s certainly true that union membership is way down from its high point in the 1970’s but membership is currently rising. And it’s true that the working class has changed in character as we now live in a largely post-industrial society. That however, is not to argue, as some do, that the working class has disappeared. The ‘we’re all middle class now’ argument. The mass workplaces are no longer collieries and shipyards, but call centres and the public sector.

What I believe we are witnessing are the morbid symptoms of a political and economic system in terminal decline- endless crises that it cannot extricate itself from. The world is literally burning down around us. Humanity, at least in the form of civilised society, is unlikely to endure for more than another century. Ten or twenty years ago this would have been perceived as an alarmist, even hysterical statement, not anymore.

But yes, you are right. The present situation cannot endure. Something better has to arise from the ashes or it’s all going down the drain, and faster than most of us expected.
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Yes, very much agree. However I feel the root cause of the decline is the rise of Monetarism, or at least the selective Monetarism interpreted by Thatcher and Regan, and that any change of society has to start with a change of the economic ideology that underpins it. A change away from an economic ideology that sees mass unemployment as a necessary condition and towards something based on a principle that sees proper full employment with decent pay and conditions as a moral good necessary for a civilised properly functioning society
 
flatpopely said:
Perhaps the Unions need to form their own party, not being flippant BTW.
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I suggested that ages ago, there is no interest here from ex-Labour supporters. At a minimum, I asked who in Labour is more left leaning who could lead the party and apparently there is nobody. They are all tories.
 
Brian said:
I suggested that ages ago, there is no interest here from ex-Labour supporters. At a minimum, I asked who in Labour is more left leaning who could lead the party and apparently there is nobody. They are all tories.
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The Labour Party under Corbyn was arguably as close to a new workers party as we’ve ever got. Corbyn was largely ignored by the establishment until 2017 when, under his leadership, Labour gained the biggest increase in votes since Clement Atlee and, with not far off half a million members, became the largest social Democratic Party in Europe.

The fact that he could feasibly have become PM shocked the establishment into action, when every smear in the book was thrown at him until one stuck. He was then completely destroyed, not least by his own paralysis in desperately trying to avoid splitting the party.

The whole experience really leads to the question of whether a centre-left Labour leader could ever be elected on an avowedly socialist ticket and whether meaningful and fundamental change can ever come through Parliament? And the ridiculous thing was, he wasn’t particularly more left wing than Harold Wilson. It’s a mark of how far to the Right Labour have travelled that the media was able to cast him as a Che Guevara type revolutionary.
 
Finnegan said:
The Labour Party under Corbyn was arguably as close to a new workers party as we’ve ever got. Corbyn was largely ignored by the establishment until 2017 when, under his leadership, Labour gained the biggest increase in votes since Clement Atlee and, with not far off half a million members, became the largest social Democratic Party in Europe.

The fact that he could feasibly have become PM shocked the establishment into action, when every smear in the book was thrown at him until one stuck. He was then completely destroyed, not least by his own paralysis in desperately trying to avoid splitting the party.

The whole experience really leads to the question of whether a centre-left Labour leader could ever be elected on an avowedly socialist ticket and whether meaningful and fundamental change can ever come through Parliament? And the ridiculous thing was, he wasn’t particularly more left wing than Harold Wilson. It’s a mark of how far to the Right Labour have travelled that the media was able to cast him as a Che Guevara type revolutionary.
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I couldn’t agree more. It was a great chance lost because no matter how close they came to winning that GE, there were sufficient numbers who bought a lie and also people with a different agenda.
 
But Corbyn was no leader. And you have to have the support of the centre to get elected if you are not Tory.
 
ks.234 said:
And yet the centre doesn’t like unions
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I suspect it is more that the centre doesn’t need unions! If you are self-employed, in a ‘professional’ role etc you just don’t need one. My first job was as a trainee psych nurse, and yes, trade unions were absolutely essential there. At every other point in my life they have been a total irrelevance/non existence. I’m sure I’m pretty typical in this regard. That is why I think any action has to be broad in scope, unified and an inclusive hit against the clear corruption and inequity of the government etc.
 
It is about more than individuals. Trade Unions are not irrelevant, to function properly the country needs Unions. People do not have to individually need a Union, or be a member of a Union to benefit from Unions.
 
Seeker_UK said:
Being widely reported that, as maritime agency workers are not subject to UK minimum wage laws, they are being paid as low as £2.60 p/h which AIUI, is about 10% of what the sacked staff were paid. Add in no pension, leave or sick pay obligations and it's trebles all round for the P&O board.

https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/news/hull-east-yorkshire-news/po-ferries-new-foreign-crew-6830384
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Wasn't it a Jersey contract they signed?

Fewer rights if so i believe.

This is what we get for selling off UK assets to the highest bidder; who happens to be 40% Russian owned. Putin will love the furore.
 
dweezil said:
Wasn't it a Jersey contract they signed?

Fewer rights if so i believe.

This is what we get for selling off UK assets to the highest bidder; who happens to be 40% Russian owned. Putin will love the furore.
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I don't know but here's some more info on depths of sh*ttiness the whole situation dredges (apologies for the link to the 'Super Soaraway'):

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17997803/po-ferries-new-agency-crew-paid/

"According to the [Mail online], International Ferry Management, a Maltese firm that will be responsible for new crews on P&O Ferries' ships, was set up just four weeks ago.

And safety fears were raised today about new crews being "unfamiliar" with both vessels and the routes they would be taking.


Mark Dickinson, general secretary of trade union Nautilus International, described an "intensely worrying situation".

He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "There are serious safety concerns, which is why the company cannot reintroduce services with the lower-paid agency crew that they've recruited via this company called International Ferry Management of Malta."
 
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