a.palfreyman
pfm Member
Maybe all P&O staff should go on the sick. That would bring the entire company to a standstill...
P&O Ferries Scandal
- Thread starter gavreid
- Start date
PsB
Citizen of Nowhere™
You certainly know more about this than I do. But I thought the Labour party was partly funded by the unions, and that some union leaders had significant influence there as a result.
flatpopely
Prog Rock/Moderator
Perhaps the Unions need to form their own party, not being flippant BTW.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
They did. In 1900!
flatpopely
Prog Rock/Moderator
But that's broken, obvs.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
What you say is true but only in a legal sense. The RMT is one of the most combative unions but also one of the smallest. As I say, if every train driver came out on strike, the country would be paralysed. If Unite offers solidarity action and every bus driver came out, this dispute would be won in hours. Of course the government would bleat about unions taking illegal action, move to seize assets, label the union ‘traitors’ for striking during a war in Ukraine etc, etc. But what could they do in reality but to concede in the face of massive union strength? Of course it is highly unlikely to happen as British Trade Unions, with some honourable exceptions, are conservative in nature. But, as George Orwell memorably wrote in 1984, if workers recognised their own strength, it would be “like a horse shaking its head free of flies.”
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
Well the RMT did disaffiliate from Labour, Unite is making similar noises. Starmer’s Labour Party is unconcerned, indeed welcome this, as he is far more comfortable being funded by business. I am in complete agreement of the need for a new party in principle but, unfortunately, the Labour Party still has the loyalty of a significant number of working class voters. And can you imagine the establishment machine unleashed upon such a project, if the Corbyn experience is anything to go by?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
But secondary strike action is illegal in the UK
Tony L
Administrator
I honestly don’t know what the Labour Party is for these days. The Conservative Party remains entirely true to its long history of elitism, grift and exploitation, a handful of Liberals/LDs or whatever can as ever be found lurking in the middle ground somewhere being fairly liberal, but Labour no longer represents anything I can discern. They have turned against their organised mass-labour roots and ended up being the party of nothing to anyone. I like to think that under a proper PR based democracy workers would regain a strong voice and a much smaller Labour Party would return to its core function of representing that in amongst a wider consensus of left & centre parties.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
But that’s precisely my point, the potential power of the RMT is such that the government would be powerless to use any legislation in what would effectively be a general strike. You can’t break a transport workers strike with scab labour. Transport workers have to be trained and that takes time. Train drivers (rightly) earn as much as university lecturers because of a) the RMT has been exceptionally good at winning favourable conditions for its members b) it’s a highly skilled job to drive a train.
Tony L
Administrator
I’m increasingly of the view that the modern Conservative Party is just so criminal and corrupt in its behaviour the law can pretty much be considered to be optional at this point in time. They are leading by example. I would fully support a ‘general strike’ and would be disappointed if the various non-Tory parties didn’t get behind it. Nothing will get these jobs back, and I doubt anyone would want to return to such an employer anyway, but a line in the sand needs drawing quite firmly IMHO.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I take your point, but the funds of any union taking secondary strike action would be sequestered and therefore be unable to pay out any strike pay. It is doubtful there would be an appetite for a General strike and even less so if those striking would not get paid. If the attitude to recent industrial action of Tube drivers is anything to go by, public opinion would be firmly against strike action.
Plus of course, the last General Strike did not go well.
Finnegan
I like a bit of a cavort
It remains, for the time being, a hypothetical and unlikely situation. But faced with overwhelming industrial might, any government is effectively powerless. Even sequestering funds relies on a workforce to carry out the task. In any case, a real general strike would not take that long to achieve its aims. No transport, civil service, large retail, education etc. Of course provision would be made to ensure vital services carried on.
The only resort of the government in that situation is to call in the army or rely on a fascist movement. Both of those strategies are highly risky and there would be disagreement and paralysis amongst our rulers over the best way to proceed.
Some strikes attract public support, other less so. Whilst public support makes it easier, strikes are won or lost on industrial strength, not public opinion. The 1926 general strike was completely sold out by the TUC.
Seanm
pfm Member
Complicated history of course but the TLDR version is that unions got nothing out of three consecutive labour governments in terms of undoing the damage Thatcher did and have lost a lot of formal influence within the party, while publicly the party has sought to distance itself from unions. The new leadership are Blair ultras: they don’t even seem to have connections with the unions through the old Labour right, as Blair himself did. By all accounts they just don’t get unions and certainly have little interest in workers’s rights.
Unions have had nowhere else to go and have lacked the confidence and initiative to pursue alternative strategies but that seems to be changing. Sharon Graham has a plan and seems very competent. Unite’s change of direction is one of the few hopeful signs in a very bleak political landscape IMO.
Tony L
Administrator
Any action needs to be broad in scope IMO. It needs to be a mass kick back against the erosion of freedoms, human rights and civil liberties in all areas of life obviously including employment law, as well as the obvious double-standards and grift of those who govern us. It is IMHO high time for a ‘poll tax moment’. Something far bigger than just trade unions defending trade union members. It is time for us all to react against the shit that is poured down on us on a day to day basis.
One of the better posts on this thread so far was IMHO from @Monitor Gold 10 who made the point that many of us are not employees, we are not in mass-labour jobs, we are not trade union members etc. I am sure that is true, it certainly is for me. That is why I feel something has to happen that unifies us all against the corrupt self-interest that has long been rooted at the very heart of UK government and has sunk this country down to this point. These job losses are just yet another symptom of where UK politics is right now. It has to be about time for us all to call it out. I’m certainly sick of it.