Why should teachers have a pay rise?

[gingermrkettle]

1265 hours a year

Meanwhile quite a few of the support staff will start on almost 40% more hours per year before any additional time (in one role I almost had an after work meeting scheduled every single week until I pointed out how silly that was). Having teachers on the first inset asking how your break was when you were working through to make sure they got paid in August sometimes elicited a short response..

 

[gingermrkettle]

academies do not have to adhere to the STPCD

For reference, I can only think of one set of academies that I have ever been involved with that might have gone away from it and my current employer has a specific policy to follow it.

 

[ks.234]

What happens is as follows. People come into the profession, very often young and pretty inexperienced, and they are persuaded, coerced, manipulated and bullied by their management to work extremely long hours. After a while a large proportion drop out, for obvious reasons. Those that remain have the stamina and the will, and they move into more senior positions where they themselves become the persuaders, coercers, manipulators and bullies of the next cohort of newly qualifieds. And so ad infinitum.

It's obviously, as you say, a very good system for the employers, particularly in schools. Especially given that by many measures the quality of educational outcomes is improving.

This is very true.

It has been going on for years

Labours promise to create 3,000 new nurseries without more money or more teachers will only make it worse

 

[oldius]

Why would you work double your contracted hours for free? That is a big part of the problem with staffing levels in schools, NHS and any other organisation. Why employ more staff when those you have are, literally, working the hours of 2?

25 direct teaching hours. 60 books to mark daily. Planning. Staff meetings. Parent meetings. After school clubs. Social media updates. It is simply impossible to do the job expected within the contracted hours. What the poster highlights is absolutely THE NORM in my experience.

 

[ks.234]

For reference, I can only think of one set of academies that might have gone away from it and my current employer has a specific policy to follow it.

Yes, academies can adopt the STPCD and the better ones will. However, I used to be a local secretary for one of the main teacher’s unions, and I saw many that didn’t. Trying to protect teachers without the STPCD is a lot harder.

 

[ks.234]

A few years ago it was a trend for colour coded marking, so that every piece of work from every lesson had to be marked with different coloured pens for marks, grade, task completion and targets for improvement. The work load was incredible.

I represented one young teacher who got into trouble for using the wrong colour.

 

[gingermrkettle]

Be interested to know the particular characteristics of the problematic academies, my impression is that the "branded" chains would be more likely to diverge than trusts which still give more educational autonomy.

Not something that has been given much attention but it will be interesting to see how educational structure policy changes post election, Ofsted having a go at the Astreas of this world would in my view improve things. The only announcement I have seen so far is the Lib Dems transferring capital funding from free school projects to existing schools.

 

[ks.234]

Be interested to know the particular characteristics of the problematic academies, my impression is that the "branded" chains would be more likely to diverge than trusts which still give more educational autonomy.

Not something that has been given much attention but it will be interesting to see how educational structure policy changes post election, Ofsted having a go at the Astreas of this world would in my view improve things. The only announcement I have seen so far is the Lib Dems transferring capital funding from free school projects to existing schools.

This one?

Teachers speak of 'fear' at Astrea schools in Cambridgeshire

Teachers speak out anonymously about standards enforced by a trust at four of its secondary schools.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[gingermrkettle]

Yep, I have been following those stories.

 

[misterdog]

What is the answer to the question?

 

[Del monaco]

I’ve been through several Academies. The worst treated staff appallingly, a Deputy even stating to me that they ‘liked to get every last drop of blood’ out of the staff. Without realising they just alienated people. I’ve been through various corporate styles, ranging from very assertive to even aggressive. I’m now in a school that is serious about wellbeing and appreciative of staff. No blame culture. This must be very rare. I’m a SENCo now which has a phenomenal workload and a high degree of stress but I like it in this school. People are understanding and recognise the challenges of this role. But Academies generally push money into the achievement of the students ‘who can’ and others are neglected, especially SEN. There were many schools recently who, despite their good or even outstanding status, were generally poor with SEN. Many received a letter from the SOS telling them they needed to improve, even the good and outstanding ones. I often wonder how a school can be outstanding when they are poor with SEN? Under the surface there are some very unhappy workers who spend countless extra hours working. Most work for the majority of their holidays. I do. Teachers were underpaid for years and merit every penny they earn.

 

[Cav]

25 direct teaching hours. 60 books to mark daily. Planning. Staff meetings. Parent meetings. After school clubs. Social media updates. It is simply impossible to do the job expected within the contracted hours. What the poster highlights is absolutely THE NORM in my experience.

No one is obliged to work for free and cannot be compelled to so. This situation exists because people who do work for free are a big and continuing part of the problem. It is a disgrace in a Unionised profession.

 

[Bob McC]

Meanwhile quite a few of the support staff will start on almost 40% more hours per year before any additional time (in one role I almost had an after work meeting scheduled every single week until I pointed out how silly that was). Having teachers on the first inset asking how your break was when you were working through to make sure they got paid in August sometimes elicited a short response..

?
What bit of “ PLUS any other hours the head deemed necessary.” didn’t you understand?

 

[Bob McC]

A few years ago it was a trend for colour coded marking, so that every piece of work from every lesson had to be marked with different coloured pens for marks, grade, task completion and targets for improvement. The work load was incredible.

I represented one young teacher who got into trouble for using the wrong colour.

I remember that bollocks

 

[misterdog]

MPs get 8 pay rises in 10 years while nurses salaries are slashed
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/mps-get-8-pay-rises-in-10-years-while-nurses-salaries-are-slashed-197695/

Meanwhile OTHER STATISTICS show.

A band 5 nurse joining in 2013 on £21,388 will have risen to the top of their scale (subject to meeting progression criteria) and received additional pay uplifts in nine of the past ten years, leaving them – if they are still in the same band – on £34,581 in 2023. This is a cash increase over the decade of 61.7 per cent and a real-terms rise of over 27 per cent.

This is true for all other pay bands, whereby those who started at the bottom of their range in 2013 and have stayed in the same pay band have gained in real terms in the past decade. The increases do vary, with the biggest being in bands 5, 6, and 7.

The journey of NHS pay over the last decade

Details of pay over the last decade, including workforce trends and how pay has changed during this time.

www.nhsemployers.org

Who is correct ? and who is cherry picking statistics to suit their agenda ?

Who needs more, most.

 

[Bob McC]

It”s still 1265 under STPCD, but academies do not have to adhere to the STPCD, so we’re back to ‘hours deemed necessary’. I’ve heard pf one academy where teachers are required to volunteer to teach an extra lesson after the official day ends

That was the situation in the school I retired from.
The previous head with the support of the LEA senior inspector made every staff member sign up to an after school activity.

 

[gingermrkettle]

?
What bit of “ PLUS any other hours the head deemed necessary.” didn’t you understand?

Possibly the bit where my trust specifically follows the STPCD.

 

[ks.234]

No one is obliged to work for free and cannot be compelled to so. This situation exists because people who do work for free are a big and continuing part of the problem. It is a disgrace in a Unionised profession.

The original comments was on the hours teachers are contracted to work. The contract makes clear additional hours are required, but not paid

51.7. In addition to the hours a teacher is required to be available for work under paragraph 51.5 or 51.6, a teacher must work such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional duties, including in particular planning and preparing courses and lessons; and assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress and achievements of assigned pupils.


51.8. The employer must not determine how many of the additional hours referred to in paragraph 51.7 must be worked or when these hours must be worked.

 

[oldius]

No one is obliged to work for free and cannot be compelled to so. This situation exists because people who do work for free are a big and continuing part of the problem. It is a disgrace in a Unionised profession.

You must be aware that it is not as simple as that.
I, of course, support your premise, but who suffers, in the short term, if teachers work to rule?
I worked in a school with three teachers. One teacher had reception, year one and year two. Another had year three and four, and another year five and six. Who do you think was the Senco? Who ran after-school clubs? Who ran the school website and social media? Who led subjects? Who ran pupil premium? Who ensured Ofsted compliance? Why was this the case? Because the school budget had been cut so horrendously tight that combining classes was essential. All of the responsibilities of a three-form entry school with none of the manpower to deliver it.

 

[ks.234]

You must be aware that it is not as simple as that.
I, of course, support your premise, but who suffers, in the short term, if teachers work to rule?
I worked in a school with three teachers. One teacher had reception, year one and year two. Another had year three and four, and another year five and six. Who do you think was the Senco? Who ran after-school clubs? Who ran the school website and social media? Who led subjects? Who ran pupil premium? Who ensured Ofsted compliance? Why was this the case? Because the school budget had been cut so horrendously tight that combining classes was essential. All of the responsibilities of a three-form entry school with none of the manpower to deliver it.

It would be nice to think that if teachers did go on strike they’d get overwhelming support from the public