ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Yes, if only we had a political philosophy based on support of the many workers rather than the few greedy capitalists!
Why should NHS have a pay rise?
- Thread starter Rodrat
- Start date
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
The other thing not mentioned yet, is that a pay rise for NHS (and other frontline staff such as police, public transport, etc) will stimulate the economy because the money will mostly be spent on goods and services, rather than being salted away.
Bananahead
pfm Member
The Swiss Confederation.
mandryka
pfm Member
We do, we have lefty philosophy. But that’s not quite enough. We have to show that concepts like economic fairness, redistribution, are not the outmoded remnants of a defunct and bankrupt ethic. We have to show that the nature of modern material relations - highly developed information systems and global capital - does not entail the micromanagement and exploitation of people.
This is not just an academic point. The people who, according to the left, need the change are not clamouring for it, and the left are weak. This is something I’ve discussed here before . . . I need to find my old copy of One Dimensional Man.
Offering 1% is actually worse than offering nothing, it is more insulting.
It is a bit of a trap in my view & the nursing unions are walking right into it. Strike action will not be popular & will cause further hardship. Also, the ‘we could earn more working for Aldi’ line is a really poor tactic & I hope the Comms becomes more focused.
It is a bit of a trap in my view & the nursing unions are walking right into it. Strike action will not be popular & will cause further hardship. Also, the ‘we could earn more working for Aldi’ line is a really poor tactic & I hope the Comms becomes more focused.
I’d support strike action. Money can be found for a massive refurbishment of no10, PPE cronies and to pay off a civil servant that was proven to be bullied by the home sec but not for our amazing nurses. Might not need masses of additional budget. How about a redistribution of the current nhs funding?
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
Quite. Or just the NHS hav9ngbto deal with the effects of COVID.
Not in real terms, as this rise will evaporate once the income tax alterations start to be brought in.
I’d also add that having supervised nurses after leaving the police
, they are in a perfect storm. Litigation culture, and intermittent management support lead them to have to be really careful re the post patient notes they have to make. There is no appetite in the NHS to streamline this aspect of their work. You can’t increase patient contact unless you deal with the aftermath of paperwork... Thus creating extra hours etc. It’s a culture and organisational issue.If they don't it's a more important issue than a minor adjustment to wage rates; overtime would ensure that payment goes to the people working more.
I know the response i'd get it i expected staff to work over 40 hours for free!
hifinutt
hifinutt
firstly your manager has to agree with this . they will not agree . it just DOES not happen
many work for a bank and get extra hours that way . you will not get overtime paid like this in the NHS usually
Big Tabs
looking backwards, going forwards
Most wards were like that, 1988 when i started in the N.H.S
It wasn’t any different when I left in 2008.
Didn’t matter which government were in charge, there was always more work than staff - that is unless you did something like running a clinic... but then you have to deal with medics overrunning.
(road traffic incident was the cause of leaving the N.H.S - I had worked for a year for a year for a University (Stroke C.V.A. research and 3 different hospices which were part charity/part N.H.S as well as N.H.S. oncology unit - chemo/radioactive therapy))
Seanm
pfm Member
It's not a lefty idea: it's just the idea that if you want the economy to grow then you don't do things that are likely to stop people spending, such as raising taxes - or cutting wages in the public sector. I think it's a basic and pretty intuitive idea, and not one that's likely to need much explanation to anyone who's, e.g., bought a coffee in a cafe near a hospital. Labour have got themselves in a situation where they can't point this kind of stuff out, and even have to support it, because not to do so would prove they were economically irresponsible. In fact it's their refusal to support pay rises and their support for the tax threshold freeze that's irresponsible. Just completely stupid on so many levels. When they had had the courage to support mainstream economic thinking they used to do stuff like this:
Again, it's not Marxist economics here, that's mainstream stuff: it's the Conservatives who are departing from orthodoxy. There's no economic logic to what they're doing: of course they can afford a pay rise for the nurses, and for every other public sector worker - it would be a drop in the ocean compared to what they've already spent this year. The problem is that it would fuel demand for pay increases in the private sector and that's something their masters can't countenance.
This is purely a labour discipline thing. If they pull it off it will be a big win for them: how can *anyone* demand a pay rise once it's been established that *even nurses, in the aftermath of a pandemic* don't deserve one?
Very true, paperwork & IT systems in NHS is laughably poor. When I went in as a trauma patient after fracturing my hip I was asked the same questions over & over as I progressed through triage. I asked a mate who’s a consultant as to whether this was just to check all was well & that I understood why was happening etc but no it’s just a basic lack of info sharing.Quite. Or just the NHS hav9ngbto deal with the effects of COVID.
Not in real terms, as this rise will evaporate once the income tax alterations start to be brought in.
I’d also add that having supervised nurses after leaving the police
Surely it cannot be impossible to sort this. Simple info sharing on a CRM system?
Andrew C!
Been around a while....
I left after 6 months. No point in trying to use knowledge and skills that work when recipients are unreceptive to change suggestions.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
There seems to be an obsession with patient confidentiality that has gone beyond what is sensible and appropriate, and risks becoming downright obstructive. I'm guessing a combination of risk-averse senior management and ambulance-chasing lawyers at the heart of this particular whirlwind.
Cav
pfm Member
If overtime or TOIL is not authorised, they should not work extra hours for free.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
mandryka
pfm Member
There's the heart of the matter!
mandryka
pfm Member
Will watch later
Yes, though I think it's a benefit for conservatives to show that the public sector is docile, susceptible to private sector management, and is therefore ripe for investment.
I read The Sun and The Guardian online every day -- probably by default rather than for any good reason. In The Sun, the nurses' 1% hardly figures today, it's old news.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Sorry, but that’s from the RCN and sets out a nurses pay and conditions entitlements. If what you say is true, and I’m not for one moment saying it isn’t, then the nurses have a cause serious complaint.
The RCN seems pretty clear on the issue, If nurses are not getting paid for overtime, where it appears they should be, they must raise it as an issue, first of all with the RCN itself, and see what they have to say.
Dave H.
Revolutionary relativist
How about not cancelling the rise in duty on alcoholic drinks - put into the budget purely to make Sunak popular - and using the £1bn+ it’d raise, at an extraordinary time when everyone recognises that things like a small tax increase on non-essential goods might be needed, to contribute to the cost of a respectable pay rise without starving other areas of the NHS?