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Why should NHS have a pay rise?

But if we give them more money, they’ll just eat it!

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Cav said:
That is not what the RCN says the contract provides. Why does she accept this?
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i have asked her and her reply was 'there is kind of an unsaid rule where you don't leave one nurse by themselves so if i understaffed or short for a shift u kinda just have to wait, in my job anyway' she is a CPN
 
The ‘problem’ is that in the NHS, and nursing in particular, there’s a strong and supportive ethos around patient care, supporting colleagues, etc, regardless of the personal cost. This has been taken advantage of by NHS management, and governments of all flavours, for as long as I can remember. Essentially, one reason why the NHS is such good value when compared to global alternatives, is because it can rely on the goodwill of nursing and clinical staff.

The government appears to have now decided to weaponise that for political ends. This should be resisted.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
The ‘problem’ is that in the NHS, and nursing in particular, there’s a strong and supportive ethos around patient care, supporting colleagues, etc, regardless of the personal cost. This has been taken advantage of by NHS management, and governments of all flavours, for as long as I can remember. Essentially, one reason why the NHS is such good value when compared to global alternatives, is because it can rely on the goodwill of nursing and clinical staff.

.
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Yes, this comment caught my attention


Big Tabs said:
I used to write endless incident forms after insane shifts, but got hauled over the coals for writing them. You are told that you should be able to do the work/care in the time allotted.

Many staff would spend an extra hour + every day writing up their nursing notes, which was essential communication and legal documents. Years after the event, nursing notes can be used in a coroner’s court to prove care was (or wasn’t) given.
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If it’s accurate it’s evidence that the NHS is a micromanaged working environment which relies on free additional labour from the workers, whether they give it through goodwill or pressure.

Everywhere is like this these days! It is the ethic of late capitalism: labour is just a tool for hitting accounting objectives.
 
Rodrat said:
However there seems to be an assumption that the long hours that have been put in are out of kindness, in fact all hours over the standard 37.5 hours are overtime.
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Simply wrong. Or feel free to point out the working groups in the NHS who actually receive overtime pay for hours over and above contracted hours.
 
Seanm said:
If we’re going to take the moralism out of it and just see it as a technical problem, one way of helping people in the private sector would be to put money in people’s pocket, by, e.g., not cutting the wages of people working in the public sector.

No one has to lose out here (except the Conservative Party and their backers, so...)
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But no one is spelling this out, as far as I’ve seen. So it looks irresponsible, as if you’re saying “there’s oodles of money, let’s give everyone a bit more wedge, we can get it from the rich like Robin Hood!” while Sunak, who’s seen the figures, is saying “Our economy has shrunk by 10% - the largest fall in over 300 years. Our borrowing is the highest it has been outside of wartime. It’s going to take this country – and the whole world – a long time to recover from this extraordinary economic situation.”

I’m not saying you’re wrong. I am saying is that if the lefty idea is to be taken seriously it needs a bit of detail to support it.
 
ks.234 said:
That does not make it OK
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Of course not, but it shows the scale of the change required, a change not just to the structure of economic organisation but also to zeitgeist. Micromanaged workplaces with human beings treated as a means to profit is right at the essence, the heart, of late capitalism.
 
bigjonny said:
This is copied from the relevant section of Agenda for Change, the NHS Terms and Conditions handbook. I pored over this when I was working, there is nothing excluding nursing staff

Section 3: Overtime payments
DOWNLOAD FULL HANDBOOKDOWNLOAD THIS SECTION
3.1 All staff in pay bands 1 to 7 will be eligible for overtime payments. There is a single harmonised rate of time-and–a-half for all overtime, with the exception of work on general public holidays, which will be paid at double time.

3.2 Overtime payments will be based on the hourly rate provided by basic pay plus any long-term recruitment and retention premia.

3.3 Part-time employees will receive payments for the additional hours at plain time rates until their hours exceed standard hours of 37.5 hours a week.1

3.4 The single overtime rate will apply whenever excess hours are worked over full-time hours, unless time off in lieu is taken, provided the employee’s line manager or team leader has agreed with the employee to this work being performed outside the standard hours.

3.5 Staff may request to take time off in lieu as an alternative to overtime payments. However, staff who, for operational reasons, are unable to take time off in lieu within three months must be paid at the overtime rate.

3.6 Senior staff paid in pay bands 8 or 9 will not be entitled to overtime payments.

3.7 Time off in lieu of overtime payments will be at plain time rates.
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crimsondonkey said:
Simply wrong. Or feel free to point out the working groups in the NHS who actually receive overtime pay for hours over and above contracted hours.
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blossomchris said:
hope not in my time, or any other. the nhs is a national treasure, not a cost cutting exercise for uncaring politicos
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There is a post above claiming that the NHS is good value. Amazon provide good value as well. By paying their staff poorly.

Anyway, I'll take the health service where I live in preference.
 
mandryka said:
But no one is spelling this out, as far as I’ve seen. So it looks irresponsible, as if you’re saying “there’s oodles of money, let’s give everyone a bit more wedge, we can get it from the rich like Robin Hood!” while Sunak, who’s seen the figures, is saying “Our economy has shrunk by 10% - the largest fall in over 300 years. Our borrowing is the highest it has been outside of wartime. It’s going to take this country – and the whole world – a long time to recover from this extraordinary economic situation.”

I’m not saying you’re wrong. I am saying is that if the lefty idea is to be taken seriously it needs a bit of detail to support it.
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Calling to account and repatriating the £billions stolen from the tax payer by PPE companies not meeting contractual obligations would get money back to help pay nurses.
 
Bananahead said:
There is a post above claiming that the NHS is good value. Amazon provide good value as well. By paying their staff poorly.

Anyway, I'll take the health service where I live in preference.
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As most of us have no idea who you are where do you live?
 
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