ks.234
Half way to Infinity
All I’ve done is ask questions, so not sure what it is that you’re disagreeing with exactly....
Why should NHS have a pay rise?
- Thread starter Rodrat
- Start date
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
....according to the evidence you have provided, nurses have an entitlement to payments for overtime, but because of certain pressures on them, they choose not to take those entitlements.
I believe that nurses should get a minimum of 2.1% and get their entitlements to overtime or time off in lieu for extra hours worked, what is it you don’t agree with?
I believe that nurses should get a minimum of 2.1% and get their entitlements to overtime or time off in lieu for extra hours worked, what is it you don’t agree with?
TBH it is all a bit alien to most in the private sector, i wouldn't contemplate asking anyone to work on that basis.
1 or 2% could be a drop in the ocean compared to achieving a fair days pay for a fair days work at present rates.
crimsondonkey
pfm Member
I disagree with what appears to be, and I'm sorry if you don't intend it quite like this, a very simplistic assessment that all nurses and other NHS staff need to do is not stand for not being paid for extra hours worked over and above their contract any longer. You seem to be suggesting that all they need to do is either organise themselves better, and/ or refuse to accept this.
I've already written a long explanation of some of the factors inside the operating culture and financial paradaigm that bring some texture and explanation that it isn't ever going to be as simple as this. I could explain in greater length or detail but if you haven't gleaned any appreciation and understanding from the short version then I doubt the longer one is going to help you.
I would be interested in hearing from those with some real world experience of working and managing within the NHS, which characterisation of the issue that they find closer to the truth/ relatable.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
I haven’t as of yet made any assessment of what hours nurses work unpaid, I’ve only gone on information received. However, the information I have received from a practicing nurse is that, yes, a ward nurse will only get overtime over an unspecified time at the discretion of the ward sister. The ward sister is responsible for the financial budgeting of the ward. There are severe pressures on financial budgets which means that the financial incentive placed on Sisters is to get as many short periods of ‘voluntary’ overtime as possible.
Isn’t the problem then with those setting the budgets?
Rob998
Scimmia Nordoccidentale
For the hard of thinking, and, for the avoidance of doubt, I’m including myself in that category, why don’t nurses not get paid for the overtime that they obviously work?
Do they not claim it? If so, why not?
Does it not get paid when claimed? If so, why not?
Are they discouraged from claiming their overtime, and if so why? (I think I know the answer to this one...)
What recourse do they have to recover the time/money they are owed if their Trust makes it difficult for them to claim their overtime?
Cav
pfm Member
If the RCN does not do enough to protect their "members" those workers should join a Union that will. Organised labour could eradicate all these loathsome practices if the workers had the courage to do so.
I was an active Trade Unionist in the Public Sector for all my working life and I know this is possible but it requires commitment and a will from all involved to realise that caring is a job and should be properly rewarded. If they were actually paid what they are entitled to they would not need a pay rise even though they richly deserve one.
I was an active Trade Unionist in the Public Sector for all my working life and I know this is possible but it requires commitment and a will from all involved to realise that caring is a job and should be properly rewarded. If they were actually paid what they are entitled to they would not need a pay rise even though they richly deserve one.
bigjonny
pfm Member
I retired as a Radiographer in 2016 , throughout my career I was paid various rates of pay for working over my standard hours which for the majority were 35 hours per week it was extended to 37.5 with the introduction of Agenda for Change. We also had a time-owing book for occasions when a scanning list would overrun and there wasn’t a scheduled evening list and a compensatory rest system included in the on-call systems that were in place.
I don’t know if we were/are a more “ militant” professional group than nurses who in my opinion are treated very unfairly.
I meant to reply to
Again, show me the staff who actually get paid for hours worked over standard contract. It just never happens in reality.
Quoted the wrong post.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
For the avoidance of doubt it is my opinion that nurses are very clearly overworked, and should get a minimum of 2.1% pay rise and get paid for overtime. Also I understand the top down pressure on budgets and the lack of proper funding in the NHS. The only thing I”m pushing back against is the suggestion from someone in charge of budgets that unions are to blame and that there is nothing to be done.Ooh red rag to a bull here
If the NHS is being hit badly then something must be done and if nurses are taking the brunt of that hit then collective action is the only way forward. If those setting budgets see the top down pressure as being the cause of problems, they should support that collective action.
And stop voting Tory
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Let’s spend some of that £350m a week on making sure nurses get paid the overtime they are due.
crimsondonkey
pfm Member
If that’s what you think I’ve said then you’ve misunderstood or I’ve not made myself clear.
It is absolutely NHS management and successive government policy to blame for the invidious position that some NHS staff find themselves in.
If you read what I posted carefully I didn’t blame their union for anything, I merely represented fair criticism from their members, on their general performance in being an effective force in highlighting the issue and using their power to bring about change.
I think I’ve fairly set out in earlier posts how this is a multi factorial issue and some of the complexities involved. I could unpack these at length but sadly time and other pressures do not permit.
Also I have never voted Tory and never will.
Come on let's spend all the Brexit bonus on the nurses. Wasn't our hokum savings promised to the NHS by a bunch of shysters who now run the country ? Surely something is left over after they lined their pockets ?
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
Agree with much of that, but the general point I want to make about unions is that it is not the unions that need to be the fighting force, it is the members. The union cannot act alone. If members are being treated unfairly, and being denied their right to overtime pay seems to be a clear definition of being treated unfairly, then the members need to take collective action. It’s not easy, it’s not simple and it takes courage.
The first step is to get along to union meetings (if the RCN is useless, join Unison) and make your individual voice heard in safe surroundings, get involved in the union, get active, organise and start pushing back against unfair treatment.
Would it be too hard to go back to clocking in?
I suppose now it would involve a vast IT contract that would never work but earn someone like Fujitsu a fortune.
When i worked in a foundry we simply clocked in and out and were effectively paid by the minute, i usually accidentally got a couple of hours OT most weeks.
I suppose now it would involve a vast IT contract that would never work but earn someone like Fujitsu a fortune.
When i worked in a foundry we simply clocked in and out and were effectively paid by the minute, i usually accidentally got a couple of hours OT most weeks.