advertisement


Who's had good results from upgraded power lead II

I could measure the effect of the cable myself with my XTZ software, if I could be bothered. In someone else's system the effect might be different, who know or cares? The make up of the cable is two twisted cable runs (sheaths), each of the blue sheaths carries 4 individually insulated wires with a screen surrounding them. One sheath (the 4 wires) is for live and the other neutral, the screens in the sheaths connect to ground.

I've not found mains cables to do much for me, it could be that my mains is quite clean as there's little industry here. My mains voltage is typically 245V to 250V, very rarely is it as low as 240V. These Nordost cable made the greatest difference to my ears and it was negative. Maybe with dirty mains they'd do something different.
 
Purite Audio said:
If you can send me that cable, I will pay for postage, I will attach it to one of the Grimm LS1 loudspeakers, I will acoustically measure, and then swop back to its stock cable and remeasure,I won't move the microphone or adjust volume in between measurements.
Any difference in bass should be immediately evident.
Keith.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't it be a better idea to measure an amplifier or cd player's reaction to such a cable, i would have thought this would show if the cable itself is having an effect on the measurements of the piece of equipment in question,for example it's ability to deal with incoming RFI onto the mains supply, which, in the end is what a cable such as this is intended to do, measure this instead, see if it changes after the cable is fitted as was the case in the ASA request of the Russ Andrews case, the lab did measure differences & recorded them.so i don't see why you wouldn't if you carried out a similar test, or anyone else here with the correct equipment & knowhow for that matter, simply repeat the test a few times for a satisfactory result.

It seems a fair request as most here who hear differences have carried out what they are capable of doing in this area by listening, be it blind or sighted so maybe it's the turn of the non believer so to speak to step up rather than keep banging out the old don't need to listen so i won't excuse.

I will gladly post my Kimber Yello cable & home made belden to anyone who can guarantee a non prejudiced test, happy to do this, just say the word.

I suppose the only problem i forsee is if the reults show a change, this will then be questioned as to if it is large enough to make a change to sound, this is another area which unfortunatley would need a specialist in brain function & perceptability & how the changes found would be perceived by our ears & brains so for now i think the only thing needed is a test to show if the cable does as it says on the tin, the rest is for someone else to sort out but it would at least show if they work or not as intended, ie, remove some rfi entering the equipment. How the item in question then deals with this would, i imagine, be down to the individual piece of equipment & i think there may lie the problem.

The 2 cables i would supply, after some checking around, seem to be the two companies that most people use when using this type of cable, belden for home made & kimber for ready made so a good balance i feel. Also, both cables are made up quite differently. Quite a few ready made also use the belden in question underneath a sheath of choice for this particular company but basically the same cable i have.
Both cables are cheap, basic, non fancy cables so a good choice i feel.

The test would need to be carried out on more than one item, including a cd player & amp & including at least one budget item in both camps as with my Rega brio 2000 amp & planet 2000 cd or similar, all tests would need repeating several times.

So if anyone wants to step up, pm me & i'll post them out. UK only mind. Keep them as long at it needs & post them back.

i Have only one request, both cables are kept in the condition i have become accustomed, neither cable is dismantled & the Russ Andrews seal over the plug screw is kept in place.
 
clivem2 said:
I could measure the effect of the cable myself with my XTZ software, if I could be bothered. In someone else's system the effect might be different, who know or cares? The make up of the cable is two twisted cable runs (sheaths), each of the blue sheaths carries 4 individually insulated wires with a screen surrounding them. One sheath (the 4 wires) is for live and the other neutral, the screens in the sheaths connect to ground.

I've not found mains cables to do much for me, it could be that my mains is quite clean as there's little industry here. My mains voltage is typically 245V to 250V, very rarely is it as low as 240V. These Nordost cable made the greatest difference to my ears and it was negative. Maybe with dirty mains they'd do something different.[/QUOTE

So will you send it to Keith?
Click to expand...
 
DevillEars said:
Here in South Africa, the currency has gone to hell in a handbasket - from just over R10 to the pound (Jan 2012) to almost R22 to the pound (today).

As a result, mains regenerators have gone from being "hellishly expensive" to "total out of reach".

In addition, here in SA, the range available is somewhat limited and those brands that are locally available do not have adequate support infrastructures (small importers with no local repair facilities).

I did try out a regenerator at the time of doing the "cable switch" and found it to be reasonably effective but could not reconcile the price difference between the regenerator and the plain 10-outlet filter against the performance difference. (Also, the home trial unit developed a fault which eroded my confidence a wee bit).

The price today for a PS Audio P5 1500watt 8-outlet regenerator is around R50,000.00 and can think of more useful items on which to blow 50 grand... :)
Click to expand...

Would the Power Inspired regenerators here be unaffordable? https://markgrant.co.uk/95-mains-filters-and-regenerators Not quite the rich features of the PS Audio but does the job.
 
Ragaman said:
Wouldn't it be a better idea to measure an amplifier or cd player's reaction to such a cable, i would have thought this would show if the cable itself is having an effect on the measurements of the piece of equipment in question,for example it's ability to deal with incoming RFI onto the mains supply, which, in the end is what a cable such as this is intended to do, measure this instead, see if it changes after the cable is fitted as was the case in the ASA request of the Russ Andrews case, the lab did measure differences & recorded them.so i don't see why you wouldn't if you carried out a similar test, or anyone else here with the correct equipment & knowhow for that matter, simply repeat the test a few times for a satisfactory result.

It seems a fair request as most here who hear differences have carried out what they are capable of doing in this area by listening, be it blind or sighted so maybe it's the turn of the non believer so to speak to step up rather than keep banging out the old don't need to listen so i won't excuse.

I will gladly post my Kimber Yello cable & home made belden to anyone who can guarantee a non prejudiced test, happy to do this, just say the word.

I suppose the only problem i forsee is if the reults show a change, this will then be questioned as to if it is large enough to make a change to sound, this is another area which unfortunatley would need a specialist in brain function & perceptability & how the changes found would be perceived by our ears & brains so for now i think the only thing needed is a test to show if the cable does as it says on the tin, the rest is for someone else to sort out but it would at least show if they work or not as intended, ie, remove some rfi entering the equipment. How the item in question then deals with this would, i imagine, be down to the individual piece of equipment & i think there may lie the problem.

The 2 cables i would supply, after some checking around, seem to be the two companies that most people use when using this type of cable, belden for home made & kimber for ready made so a good balance i feel. Also, both cables are made up quite differently. Quite a few ready made also use the belden in question underneath a sheath of choice for this particular company but basically the same cable i have.
Both cables are cheap, basic, non fancy cables so a good choice i feel.

The test would need to be carried out on more than one item, including a cd player & amp & including at least one budget item in both camps as with my Rega brio 2000 amp & planet 2000 cd or similar, all tests would need repeating several times.

So if anyone wants to step up, pm me & i'll post them out. UK only mind. Keep them as long at it needs & post them back.

i Have only one request, both cables are kept in the condition i have become accustomed, neither cable is dismantled & the Russ Andrews seal over the plug screw is kept in place.
Click to expand...
So, in other words, you don't want your cables to be tested.

Fair enough.
 
I am serious about this, it's not some trick, i am actually curious about this stuff having read god knows how many pages here but if your reaction to such a test is this, maybe i don't need one as it is as expected so please any "real" people who want to carry out such a test, i can get them shipped on Wednesday for a thurs/fri delivery.

I believe Keith offered to test such a cable, he is welcome to carry out the test he recomended also, obviously.

Quite saddened by both Avole & MVV reactions to be honest, expected some to be banging my door down for a free cable test.

Maybe serious offers, just send a pm & we can get shipment sorted as i doubt to get serious offers in the open thread as the above shows.
 
Yes, it's the stipulations that were of concern. However, he's happy for Purite to run his tests now, so that's fine.
 
Alex S said:
That only has the nordost-treble and nordost-midrange part of the cable. The nordost-bass is darker blue and had been removed before being given to you.
Click to expand...

if this isn't a wind up and the effect is less bass then a simple FR plot of the active speakers should show it.
 
cooky1257 said:
if this isn't a wind up and the effect is less bass then a simple FR plot of the active speakers should show it.
Click to expand...
I thought it was a given that cables affect perception in ways which science is currently unable to explain or measure but that it will one day when all cable manufacturers will be revealed to be Galileo, basically.
 
DevillEars, I like your beer analogy. I have my suspicions that our senses become saturated (for want of a better word) rather sooner than we expect, and our perceptions are less acute as a result.

There is also the problem of sonic memory, which the techies remind us has a duration of mere seconds. I don't doubt it, but this makes repeated testing, sighted or unsighted, problematic. So, to base your premise on the results of an unsighted test is really no more valid than basing it on the basis of a sighted one.

It boils down to this:

1). Sighted test, differences perceived. Concept of very low level noise being perceptible, even if not audible, accepted as a possibility.

2). Unsighted test. No differences perceived. Satisfied that very low level noise cannot be heard or perceived.

Neither is, to my mind, definitive as things currently stand. We don't seem, however, to be able to live with the notion that the other side may have a reasonable and rational basis for its POV.
 
avole said:
Yes, it's the stipulations that were of concern. However, he's happy for Purite to run his tests now, so that's fine.
Click to expand...
What are the stipulations you are concerned with.

You were probably correct in your first response also, i am more interested in having the associated equipment measured as to it's reaction to such a cable being fitted, which in my mind is more important & why people purchase such a cable in the first place.

To all here, this is not a wind up, it is a serious offer for someone to carry out a non prjudiced test, i will also add, the usual suspects, they know who they are, may not apply for very obvious reasons.

The Russ Andrews ASA test was less thorough i feel, this would cover a home environment test for starters, not a lab test as with the russ andrews test.

For obvious reasons, no filtered mains blocks can be used, no regeneration, it needs to be as someone purchasing such a cable would be using it, plugged into a standard mains block in a wall socket, no outside filtering before the cable reaches the said equipment.
 
I think Keith's offer to test the Nordost could be interesting if, as reported, the perceived effect was a significant loss of bass. That's a much more concrete effect than 'better' or 'worse'. It might have been system dependent of course, but if it can be reproduced and measured, it will be of interest. Keith, if you do this, it would also be useful to determine the LCR characteristics of the cable, see if anything silly pops out.
 
DonQuixote99 said:
Actually, ragaman offers to submit cables to testing, with a few stipulations.

Clivem2, however, is so far just listing reasons to think testing would be futile.
Click to expand...
I'm not trying to avoid testing, it's more that I'm not that bothered but as I don't use the cable in my system it's no great loss to be without it for a while. I'll send it to Keith if he lets me know his address - his website doesn't seem to show his company address. Note that my speakers go down to almost 20Hz though IIRC the cable impacts mid and upper bass so this shouldn't be a factor.

I would send the plaited cable I made but as it sounds the same as a kettle lead there's not much point. At least it's sort of nicer to use.
 
whatsnext said:
Would the Power Inspired regenerators here be unaffordable? https://markgrant.co.uk/95-mains-filters-and-regenerators Not quite the rich features of the PS Audio but does the job.
Click to expand...

Hi BE, err, oops - that should read whatsnext (whistles as gazes off into space),

Going through the specs, the 1500watt version at ~500 quid only provides mains regeneration but has no filter elements. As a result, if one's needs mains filtering, then one would need to add the filter capability.

Grant do offer filter modules but they appear to be designed for use "downstream" from the regenerator. Each filter module provides input filtering and common-mode filters between its two 13-amp outlets. Each filter modules sells for ~350 quid.

The math, unfortunately, does not work for me as I need 8 outlets for:

1) LP12
2) CDT
3) DAC
4) CDR/HDD
5) Pre-amp
6) Tuner
7) Monoblock (L)
8) Monoblock (R)

This results in a pricing of 4 x 350 = 1400 + 500 = 1900 quid = ~R42,000 and there's still one problem - the regenerator only has a single outlet, so will still need to inject a 4-outlet strip between regenerator and 4 x filter modules.

The only possibility would be to get the regenerator and retain the current PS Audio Quintet filter/distribution block with the regenerator plugged into the wall and the Quintet plugged into the regenerator to provide the filtering and distribution.

Neither is really an elegant solution and with the first one being seriously WAF-challenged, to say the least PLUS it's not exactly cheap as I'll need to add airfreight initially for delivery and - to cap it all - they have no local representation. While cheaper, the second option with the Quintet still has an element of risk and cost due to lack of local representation.

PS Audio's P5 combines everything into a single chassis - regeneration, line filters, common-mode filters, surge protection, 8xoutlet sockets, sequential power on, etc. Their P3 offers similar facilities but with a maximum power rating of 1200w vs 1500w. Can't find a price for the P5, but the P3 is listed for R30,000 or ~1,370 quid.

My guess is that a P5 will probably cost around the same Sterling price as the first Grant combo or 1900 quid.

Either way, forking out the best part of R42,000 for mains filter/regenerator/strip/etc just doesn't appeal right now - other priorities for PC hardware which help me generate income... :(
 
Anyone?

I read on threads such as this quite often that the last 1 metre of cable will have no effect whatsoever on the associated equipment it is attached to, i am offering 2 cables for such a test, free of charge.
 
My experience with mains filters has not been positive. I find they can sit on dynamics and the sense of scale and space. I'm not sure, but wonder if they adversely affect mains impedance, perhaps. They do seem to produce effects which I'd associate with limiting an amp's ability to follow fast transients, for example. Similarly, I think regenerators need to be vastly over-specced if they are not to have simlar effects. I may not have heard a decent one, of course. It is why I also wonder about the effectiveness of ferrite chokes on mains cables.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top