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What Brexit tells us

droodzilla said:
We know. The previously reported turnout figure for the 18-24 age group was more like 40%. This shockingly low figure has been used as a stick to beat young people who complain about the result with.

The 90% figure goes to show how determined some old people were to f*ck up the lives of the young.
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Those entitled to vote should have been in the 16-65 range imho, I guess the result would have been somewhat different?
 
droodzilla said:
We know.

The previously reported turnout figure for the 18-24 age group was more like 40%. This shockingly low figure has been used as a stick to beat young people who complain about the result with.

The 90% figure goes to show how determined some old people were to f*ck up the lives of the young.
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I gather that you are not a parent and don't have any children as that is a stupid comment to make. Parents want the best for their children and grandchildren.

BTW my daughter who was 21 at the time was in Malaysia on voting day but still arranged for her mum to vote on her behalf by proxy. Those that didn't vote were either lazy or didn't care one way or the other. Therefore those none votes should be added to the winning side.

Cheers,

DV
 
tqineil said:
Those entitled to vote should have been in the 16-65 range imho, I guess the result would have been somewhat different?
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Thats just as silly as saying only those with an IQ above a certain value are allowed to vote. If so where do you set that IQ level?

Democracy is that the views of all the people are represented not just the chosen few.

Cheers,

DV
 
Darth Vader said:
Parents want the best for their children and grandchildren.
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As I have stated elsewhere, my parents voted to leave, largely driven, I expect, by their dislike of foreign people. Do they want the best for me? Of course. Did they take into consideration the impact of Brexit on my industry, and the high possibility that it would likely be forced to up sticks and move back into the EU / Single Market zones, taking me, the Mrs. and their only two Grandchildren with it? Did they f*ck.

Without really thinking about it, they have actually made their children and grandchildrens lives a great deal more difficult.
 
The vote was also skewed by those living in the EU and don't want to take put private health insurance, that makes about 1.2 million less the ones that have been away for 15 years and are under 18. I read somewhere that they nearly all voted remain. And I suspect the turnout was quite high from this profile of person.
 
farfromthesun said:
As I have stated elsewhere, my parents voted to leave, largely driven, I expect, by their dislike of foreign people. Do they want the best for me? Of course. Did they take into consideration the impact of Brexit on my industry, and the high possibility that it would likely be forced to up sticks and move back into the EU / Single Market zones, taking me, the Mrs. and their only two Grandchildren with it? Did they f*ck.

Without really thinking about it, they have actually made their children and grandchildrens lives a great deal more difficult.
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Same situation for me! Off to Germany on Sunday to open a company and bank account. Time to hedge the bets.
 
Joe Hutch said:
As H L Mencken wrote, no-one ever went broke under-estimating the intelligence of the American public.

If faced with a complex series of problems, the simple-minded are always going to be attracted by someone who says 'Actually, it's really simple. All we need to do is [insert soundbite such as 'drain the swamp' or 'take back control'] and everything will be fine. Don't listen to the so-called experts and nay-sayers who claim it will be complex and messy with all sorts of unintended consequences'.
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I think we miss the point of Trumpism if we insist on treating it as a failure of intellect. It's all emotion. Trump offers a license to hate and maybe even more than that he offers permission to refuse the kind of positivity and optimism captured so well by Joe P's cartoon, optimism which, in context, is really a kind of abuse.

He offers liberals the same license to hate, and to indulge in fantasies about the stupidity of the masses etc. etc. As John and others have pointed out here you are really doing Trump's work for him with this kind of stuff.
 
farfromthesun said:
As I have stated elsewhere, my parents voted to leave, largely driven, I expect, by their dislike of foreign people. Do they want the best for me? Of course. Did they take into consideration the impact of Brexit on my industry, and the high possibility that it would likely be forced to up sticks and move back into the EU / Single Market zones, taking me, the Mrs. and their only two Grandchildren with it? Did they f*ck.

Without really thinking about it, they have actually made their children and grandchildrens lives a great deal more difficult.
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So you have no idea why your parents voted to leave and like many other bremoaners make things up on the hoof just to support their own prejudices.

Perhaps you should talk to your parents and try to understand their POV?

Also no one has a crystal ball and the future has many pathways. Probabilities are just that and are volatile and likely to change.

Cheers,

DV
 
Well, I do. It's because of foreigners.

I have tried to talk to them about it, but it's an absolute waste of time, as are similar discussions with most inclined to vote leave.
 
Tigerjones said:
The one thing that would make this whole boring episode more fun would be much more creative names for the other side you all seem keen on naming. Is bremoaners the best we can muster?
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Thinking about people who voted leave I run out of ideas after ****.
 
claire.fox said:
Mind you the under 65s -- especially the 18-24s may be so beggared by stress, debt, shit zero-hour contract Poundland and Sports Direct jobs for graduates with no easy way to work elsewhere, lack of affordable housing to own, a Tory-ransacked NHS, no affordable private healthcare, poor wages, high rents, lack of pensions, no savings and poor access to affordable foodstuffs from the EU that they might have shorter lifespans.

Silver tarnishes.
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You forgot student loan debt, divorce, no pension till they are 71 (maybe 90 by they do retire) and no inheritance due to tax and care home costs.
 
SteveS1 said:
Negative campaigning - by Remain, Leave, Trump and Clinton - sort of suggests they all think it works. Maybe the problem is ours?
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64% is quite low i feel for such an important vote, where were the rest i wonder.
Even this amount had to have a campaign to get them voting, people on the streets handing out forms for them to fill in to allow them to place a vote, how times change.
 
claire.fox said:
Mind you the under 65s -- especially the 18-24s may be so beggared by stress, debt, shit zero-hour contract Poundland and Sports Direct jobs for graduates with no easy way to work elsewhere, lack of affordable housing to own, a Tory-ransacked NHS, no affordable private healthcare, poor wages, high rents, lack of pensions, no savings and poor access to affordable foodstuffs from the EU that they might have shorter lifespans.

Silver tarnishes.
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"By comparing wholesale food prices in Europe to world market prices, this shows that we are paying 17% more for food than we would under market conditions."

Sir Digby Jones, former Chairman, CBI

I well remember the effect on food prices when we joined the Common Market. They jumped in price and the food on our plates were of lower quality because that was all my parents could afford. Since then in order to hold down prices the public have been sold crap food. The stuff in my local supermarket is rubbish and a lot of quality British food goes abroad. The rest goes mostly to the hotels and restaurants.

Cheers,

DV
 
Seanm said:
I think we miss the point of Trumpism if we insist on treating it as a failure of intellect. It's all emotion. Trump offers a license to hate and maybe even more than that he offers permission to refuse the kind of positivity and optimism captured so well by Joe P's cartoon, optimism which, in context, is really a kind of abuse.
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The 'system' has failed a lot of people in the USA. They have now been promised a way of getting better prospects that makes sense to them. That's why they voted for Trump, everything else is peripheral.
 
Tony L said:
Indeed, which is why a ground-up rethink is becoming increasingly essential. Left unchecked the system can only collapse as the logical conclusion is that a tiny minority will own all of the means of production yet have no customers as the masses are no longer needed as an employable commodity and therefore have no cash to spend, i.e. the end-game for conventional capitalism as the theoretical model no longer stands up. Capitalism is based upon consumers and end-users, punish the latter too much and it fails at a basic conceptual level.

I have no idea where we go, but it is abundantly obvious that protectionism will not work in this modern high-tech connected context regardless of the hard-right gobshitery currently in play. I'm struggling to see anything viable beyond adopting a Universal Basic Income and coming to the acceptance that many people will never be needed for work. I'm sure the real innovators, thinkers, artists and artisans will always find a role, but the working masses are pretty much screwed as I see it.
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There was a science fiction writer active around the '70s, David R. Bunch, who wrote a series of stories about a world he called Moderan. Men and machines were literally merged, and the world was dominated by human/machine autarchs, each in their own hyper-fortified compounds, playing war with each other with real missiles. A few 'legacy humans' struggled to live in the spaces between the fortresses.

It occurs to me that right-wing one-percenters, many of whom are into their version of the bunker-building 'prepper' movement, may in fact be the ancestors of the Moderan fortress-commanders.
 
stephen bennett said:
It's not just production that will be automated. So will law, education, services, hospitality, distribution, health and IT-basically everything we do. Few jobs, no taxes.

Stephen
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Who will these goods and services be produced for? What will the multitudes without jobs get?
 
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