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What Brexit tells us

sean99 said:
Not true - if one company within a business sector automates and can then undercut its competitors then they'll all be forced to do it because consumers buy the least expensive, quality being equal. Capitalism is in effect a race to the bottom, where only the "most productive" companies survive. Unfortunately "most productive" means fewer workers.
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Spot on. But you missed out the next step where the companies reduce labour cost by moving to eastern Europe; setting up with soft loans from the EIB (European Investment Bank). The UK makes a contriutionto the EIB.
 
Colin Barron said:
Spot on. But you missed out the next step where the companies reduce labour cost by moving to eastern Europe; setting up with soft loans from the EIB (European Investment Bank). The UK makes a contriutionto the EIB.
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Do you already only buy Made in UK products ?
 
DonQuixote99 said:
Ah, then you don't know what will happen. You just know my conceptual-level idea-spinning is 'gobbledygook.' Well, I think much of traditional economics is gobbledygook, designed to say that whatever 'markets' can be made to do to pile wealth up at the top is 'right.'
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Look in your driveway and at the technology around your house. Compare that to what your parents had and tell me that markets only pile up benefits at the top. Markets are the best means for deciding what to make that's why even Marxists recognise that in a socialist society they would exist.
 
Michael J said:
How about a mass of cottage industries?
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As products become more complex it takes more capital investment to design them which must be amortized over greater unit sales - hence mergers and acquisitions. Mass cottage industry would only be possible if we went backward in technology - like Morgans for example.
 
gassor said:
Look at what has happened in the last 20 years to living standards in India and China then.
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Indeed. Capitalism, for all its faults, has surely created the greatest migration out of poverty in the history of humankind.
 
gassor said:
Look in your driveway and at the technology around your house. Compare that to what your parents had and tell me that markets only pile up benefits at the top. Markets are the best means for deciding what to make that's why even Marxists recognise that in a socialist society they would exist.
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Pah! Under communism I would have a flying car in the driveway. Instead of a couple of bins.

There's more to the distribution of wealth than the availability of gadgets. How about this?

https://www.adamtooze.com/2017/02/0...omy-leaving-50-behind-latest-piketty-saez-co/

40 years of growth have benefited 50% of Americans...slightly less than not at all.
 
eternumviti said:
Indeed. Capitalism, for all its faults, has surely created the greatest migration out of poverty in the history of humankind.
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Regulated capitalism. Therein lies the trick - capitalism has to be managed, regulated, taxed etc to make sure it benefits a majority of people.

Noone on this thread is saying we ditch capitalism completely, but that the direction in which it's taking us, and the calls for ever greater deregulation, are going to lead to massive inequality as demonstrated in the USA and to a lesser extent, the UK.

Capitalism applied to healthcare has produced the world's most expensive and one of the worst performing healthcare systems in terms of advanced nations.

Capitalism has been great for our wants - it has not done so well providing for many of our needs (education, healthcare, transportation, utilities).
 
sean99 said:
Regulated capitalism. Therein lies the trick - capitalism has to be managed, regulated, taxed etc to make sure it benefits a majority of people.

Noone on this thread is saying we ditch capitalism completely, but that the direction in which it's taking us, and the calls for ever greater deregulation, are going to lead to massive inequality.

Capitalism applied to healthcare has produced the world's most expensive and one of the worst performing healthcare systems in terms of advanced nations.

Capitalism has been great for our wants - it has not done so well providing for many of our needs (education, healthcare, transportation, utilities).
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I think I fully agree with that.
 
Colin Barron said:
The redundant Italians , French and UK workers whose jobs have been relocated to eastern Europe using EU money may not agree with you, or find any consolation.
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You are right about lack of consolation, but it will a temporary blip. Eastern Europeans will also not be happy when automation replaces them too.

You do realise it's everyone who will be affected by this, right? Brexit won't stop the inevitable move to fewer well paid jobs in the future.


Stephen
 
sean99 said:
As products become more complex it takes more capital investment to design them which must be amortized over greater unit sales - hence mergers and acquisitions. Mass cottage industry would only be possible if we went backward in technology - like Morgans for example.
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There are lies, damn lies and statistics:-

"In 2016, there were 5.5 million businesses in the UK. Over 99% of businesses are Small or Medium Sized businesses – employing 0-249 people. The manufacturing sector accounted for 5% of businesses, 10% of employment and 15% of turnover."

Note that 99% of businesses employ 0-249 people. We are still effectively a nation-of-shop-keepers but have moved with the times.

Cheers,

DV
 
eternumviti said:
I think I fully agree with that.
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Thing is, properly and effectively regulated capitalism requires the regulator to have a long reach in this globalised world. That can be effective in the context of, say, the EU, but the UK going it alone is basically a signal that multinational companies will be able to run rings around what little regulation we intend to retain.
 
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