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War declared, Israel v Palestine...

Avi Hyman on R4 One o’clock news.

A long, long speech of lies, the best of which is that any talk of starvation in Gaza is all lies.

TBF to BBC the presenter did her best, listing all the international agencies who have reported starvation and warning of famine, but apparently they’re all lying.

The only thing that is astounding is that our politicians continue to choose to believe the lies, and the lies, and the lies, and the lies, and the lies……..
 

Palestinian state recognition based on 1967 borders: Irish foreign minister

Micheal Martin says the country plans to formally recognise the Palestinian state on May 28 based on its 1967 borders.
This refers to the borders that existed before the war that year in which Israel occupied East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.
“When we recognise a state, we don’t recognise the government of the day; we recognise the state in terms of a permanent population of people in terms of defined borders, and in this case, it’s the 1967 borders,” the Irish foreign minister told RTE radio.
That is “a defined territory involving Gaza, the West Bank and … a capital of both an Israeli state and a Palestinian state in Jerusalem”, Martin said.

 

Legal group submits war crimes complaint to Scotland Yard

The International Centre of Justice for Palestinians (ICJP), a London-based legal group, has submitted a complaint to Scotland Yard’s War Crimes Team accusing Israel of using “‘starvation as a weapon of war” and “willfully causing great suffering to Palestinians during its war on Gaza”.
The complaint builds on an initial complaint submitted in January that is still being considered by Scotland Yard, which named four British government ministers for “alleged complicity and criminal responsibility in Israeli war crimes”.
The latest submission now includes a fifth senior government minister as an alleged perpetrator, ICJP said in a statement.
“The alleged criminal acts are prosecutable in the United Kingdom and will now be considered by Scotland Yard’s War Crimes Investigation Team before a decision is made by them whether to open a formal criminal investigation, which could see alleged perpetrators questioned, arrested and prosecuted,” it said.
It added that the 60-page complaint is comprehensive, with 800 pages of evidence “collected from first hand eyewitnesses, expert reports and expert evidence from nineteen medical professionals who have worked in Gaza since October”.
🚨BREAKING🚨
ICJP submitted a war crimes Complaint to Scotland Yard's War Crime Unit mere hours after the @IntlCrimCourt arrest warrants announcement, expanding suspects list to five UK Ministers.https://t.co/PRkCFWeoi9
— ICJP (@ICJPalestine) May 22, 2024
 
Avi Hyman on R4 One o’clock news.

A long, long speech of lies, the best of which is that any talk of starvation in Gaza is all lies.

TBF to BBC the presenter did her best, listing all the international agencies who have reported starvation and warning of famine, but apparently they’re all lying.

The only thing that is astounding is that our politicians continue to choose to believe the lies, and the lies, and the lies, and the lies, and the lies……..



 
There's is open season on the right and far right (the irony) calling lefties/ those on peace marches/ those who support cultural diversity or bus gates fascists - or Nazis/ Nazi enablers as as in the quote above. It's so brainless it's almost funny (like when people are called Nazis in comedies, peep show comes to mind) except it isn't. Tony is right, we are the fascist element, part of a machine enabling an Israeli state sponsored genocide and it's sickening to see Rishi Sunak laugh it off breezily.
 
There's been a lot of people lately calling other people nazis or fascists, open season on the far right (the irony) calling lefties/ those on peace marches/ those who support cultural diversity (cultural or general) fascists or in the case above, anyone against Israel's actions are supporting Nazis (ie Hamas presumably). Speaking as someone who like many has a good working knowledge of Nazi history (my specialist subject is all things German), it's so brainless it would be funny except it isn't. l remember naively being puzzled when we were told Putin was happily describing Ukrainians as Nazis. In comfortably peaceful times it used to be occasionally humourous to make excessive mention of nazism if done well (faulty towers bviously and others). But Tony is right, right now we are the thugs and the fascist enablers of a state sponsored genocide and it's sick to see Richi Sunak laugh it off breezily.
 
I doubt global are coming for me, given the torrent of abuse I’ve thrown at them over the previous few weeks.

Every single forum I’m on (not many, two mtb forum, one political forum,) has numerous folk/members stating that she was sacked, sangita is still silent on the matter.
 
There's been a lot of people lately calling other people nazis or fascists, open season on the far right (the irony) calling lefties/ those on peace marches/ those who support cultural diversity (cultural or general) fascists or in the case above, anyone against Israel's actions are supporting Nazis (ie Hamas presumably). Speaking as someone who like many has a good working knowledge of Nazi history (my specialist subject is all things German), it's so brainless it would be funny except it isn't. l remember naively being puzzled when we were told Putin was happily describing Ukrainians as Nazis. In comfortably peaceful times it used to be occasionally humourous to make excessive mention of nazism if done well (faulty towers bviously and others). But Tony is right, right now we are the thugs and the fascist enablers of a state sponsored genocide and it's sick to see Richi Sunak laugh it off breezily.
Yes, agree. The only thing I would say is that History has little to do with it. It is more about the the superficiality of symbols rather than any sory of analysis, historical or otherwise

The Crusades are also cat nip to the far right for the same reasons.

Politicians like Braverman recognise the power of uncritical symbolism and use it mercilessly. Braverman and her ilk are empowered by the perversion of history.

More Hitler is exactly what they want because they can use and control it. Until they can’t. But by then it will be somebody else’s fault
 

I’d somehow missed this video from Alexi Sayle from a couple of weeks ago. It is wonderful; a video of him cycling to one of the peace marches. He‘s one of the good guys for sure.

PS It makes me homesick for That London. I used to love cycling there. It is the part of the UK that isn’t crap. If I could afford to live there I’d be back like a shot.
 
Gosh! Who’da thought?

It’s almost as if Hamas isn’t the real target!
That's a bit flippant given the loss of life involved, and it's not even an accurate summary of the evil that's playing out in Gaza.

Of course Hamas is the target, just as the Viet Cong was for the US Army. But the IDF, outdoing even the Americans in Vietnam, has prosecuted a campaign that they know can only result in massive civilian casualties. Contrary to your inference, they are not targeting anyone but Hamas. The disgusting part of it is that the directors of this campaign simply don't care how many innocent lives are lost for each enemy kill. This is the level of inhumanity that Netanyahu and his right-wing stringpullers have dragged Israel down to. (yeah, yeah, Israel was no saint before, but this is an imperfect world, and the choice everyone has is only to move toward good or evil - he chose evil).

This wanton destruction is the evil perpetrated by Netanyahu and Galant. This is why the ICC had issued warrants against them. But the ICC warrants are against them as individuals, for the actions they have carried out using the apparatus of the Israeli state; it is not a condemnation of Israel itself, just as the arrest of Slobodan Milosovic was not a charge against the state of Serbia. I am uncomfortable with the way some commentators lazily equate Netanyahu with Israel.

Or, to put it another way: I despise the current UK government; I do not despise the British people. When condemning the atrocities of the Israeli government, I am careful to put the blame where it lies: not on "Jews", not on "Israel" as a concept or a country, but the scum that has captured that state over the past two decades and used all its powers to oppose any peaceful resolution of this mess. I can't say I'm keen on the people who vote for Netanyahu and those further right of him, but I refuse to believe that Israel is the only place on earth where normally decent people can't be frightened into voting for the most disgusting of policies by a lying media.
 
A persuasive argument. However, when I - and most others on here - talk about israel, we mean the the state of israel, just as there is a distinction between Britain, and the British. I'm well aware that there are Jews in both israel and the wider diaspora around the world who are finding the horrors perpetrated by israel - the state of israel - on and in Gaza absolutely abhorrent. And there is also an aphorism saying countries get the government they deserve, which while harsh, contains more than a grain of truth.

And I do think this is more about a land grab, than retribution, or even more unlikely, getting the hostages back.
 
^ just as we must separate Jews, semites and zionists. As much as zionists want to conflate these terms. zionism has been a disaster for Palestinians but it has also corrupted and brutalised Jews.
I disagree 'they are not targeting anyone but Hamas': IDF snipers are absolutely targeting UNWRA, hospital staff, journalists and children.
 
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That's a bit flippant given the loss of life involved, and it's not even an accurate summary of the evil that's playing out in Gaza.

Of course Hamas is the target, just as the Viet Cong was for the US Army. But the IDF, outdoing even the Americans in Vietnam, has prosecuted a campaign that they know can only result in massive civilian casualties. Contrary to your inference, they are not targeting anyone but Hamas. The disgusting part of it is that the directors of this campaign simply don't care how many innocent lives are lost for each enemy kill. This is the level of inhumanity that Netanyahu and his right-wing stringpullers have dragged Israel down to. (yeah, yeah, Israel was no saint before, but this is an imperfect world, and the choice everyone has is only to move toward good or evil - he chose evil).

This wanton destruction is the evil perpetrated by Netanyahu and Galant. This is why the ICC had issued warrants against them. But the ICC warrants are against them as individuals, for the actions they have carried out using the apparatus of the Israeli state; it is not a condemnation of Israel itself, just as the arrest of Slobodan Milosovic was not a charge against the state of Serbia. I am uncomfortable with the way some commentators lazily equate Netanyahu with Israel.

Or, to put it another way: I despise the current UK government; I do not despise the British people. When condemning the atrocities of the Israeli government, I am careful to put the blame where it lies: not on "Jews", not on "Israel" as a concept or a country, but the scum that has captured that state over the past two decades and used all its powers to oppose any peaceful resolution of this mess. I can't say I'm keen on the people who vote for Netanyahu and those further right of him, but I refuse to believe that Israel is the only place on earth where normally decent people can't be frightened into voting for the most disgusting of policies by a lying media.
Bollocks, no flippancy about the loss of life at all.

The idea that the loss of life is in any way justified by the so called fight against Hamas is a nonsense.

I have clarified my thinking by saying ‘the state of Isreal’ so many times now for the meaning to be clear. I have never blamed anyone but Netanyahu and his supporters for the genocide and war crimes against innocent civilians in Gaza.

It should be obvious by now that the loss of life is down to war crimes and an act of genocide, and not just a pursuit of Hamas. It should be obvious by now that what is going on in Gaza is an expansion of the ancient colonial settler project.

War crimes are after all the basis if the ICC request for the arrest warrants, not the legitimate pursuit of terrorists
 
^ just as we must separate Jews, semites and zionists. As much as zionists want to conflate these terms. zionism has been a disaster for Palestinians but it has also corrupted and brutalised Jews.
I disagree 'they are not targeting anyone but Hamas': IDF snipers are absolutely targeting UNWRA, hospital staff, journalists and children.
Yes, and let’s not forget the expansion of the colonial settler project in the West Bank that is going hand in hand with the current genocide in Gaza.
 
Of course Hamas is the target, just as the Viet Cong was for the US Army. But the IDF, outdoing even the Americans in Vietnam, has prosecuted a campaign that they know can only result in massive civilian casualties. Contrary to your inference, they are not targeting anyone but Hamas. The disgusting part of it is that the directors of this campaign simply don't care how many innocent lives are lost for each enemy kill. This is the level of inhumanity that Netanyahu and his right-wing stringpullers have dragged Israel down to.
This is further exacerbated by the fact that Hamas wants as many civilian casualties as possible, while by not freeing the hostages makes it impossible for Israel to end its campaign in Gaza.
 
This is further exacerbated by the fact that Hamas wants as many civilian casualties as possible, while by not freeing the hostages makes it impossible for Israel to end its campaign in Gaza.
Are you sure that Hamas hasn't offered to release all the hostages? I thought I had read they have made offers to do that, maybe more than once.

How do you know that Hamas "wants as many civilian casualties as possible"?
 


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