advertisement


War declared, Israel v Palestine...

tiggers said:
Yep, let's strip this down to the bones.... if you don't agree with mass murdering Muslim babies and children in the name of 'anti-terrorism' you're anti-Semitic. That is Natanyahu's (and some of the general Israel population's) view now.
Click to expand...
Anti-Semitic in this usage means anti Israeli policy, which must be defended in all cases because of Israeli nationalist sentiment, which has long been conflated with Jewish identity. So if you hate Israeli genocide, you hate Jews. The logic is inescapable--apparently.
 
DonQuixote99 said:
Anti-Semitic in this usage means anti Israeli policy, which must be defended in all cases because of Israeli nationalist sentiment, which has long been conflated with Jewish identity. So if you hate Israeli genocide, you hate Jews. The logic is inescapable--apparently.
Click to expand...
In Netanyahu's vision of things you are perfectly right. But I'll give an example of how anti-Israeli feeling has become anti-semitic:

Today was a national holiday in Italy, "Giornata della Liberazione." This celebrates April 25, 1945, when Italy was liberated from German occupation and its Italian Fascist allies. By tradition, it is also the annual holiday that celebrates "anti-Fascism" as the basis of Italy's subsequent democracy. There are rallies and speeches all over the country, programmes on TV, and so on.
Among those that always take part are the Partisan's Association (by now with very few surviving actual partisans), the trades unions, the political party representatives, and a delegation that commemorates the role of the Jewish Brigade in the liberation of Italy.
Today, the Jewish Brigade contingent was jostled and verbally abused by people with Palestinian flags, and would have been physically attacked but for the police.
Now, the Jewish Brigade fought in north Africa and Italy, before the State of Israel even existed.
The "free Palestine" group should therefore have no bone to pick with them. Also, what does "free-Palestine" have to do with the liberation of Italy in 1945? They came specifically to attack the Jewish Brigade, because it is called "Jewish."
Is this not anti-semitism?
 
Dr Agnes Callamard from Amnesty International on how we're regressing back to before1945 and are pretty much stuffed as a species.
A big up to Democracy Now! for their output.

 
PaulMB said:
In Netanyahu's vision of things you are perfectly right. But I'll give an example of how anti-Israeli feeling has become anti-semitic:

Today was a national holiday in Italy, "Giornata della Liberazione." This celebrates April 25, 1945, when Italy was liberated from German occupation and its Italian Fascist allies. By tradition, it is also the annual holiday that celebrates "anti-Fascism" as the basis of Italy's subsequent democracy. There are rallies and speeches all over the country, programmes on TV, and so on.
Among those that always take part are the Partisan's Association (by now with very few surviving actual partisans), the trades unions, the political party representatives, and a delegation that commemorates the role of the Jewish Brigade in the liberation of Italy.
Today, the Jewish Brigade contingent was jostled and verbally abused by people with Palestinian flags, and would have been physically attacked but for the police.
Now, the Jewish Brigade fought in north Africa and Italy, before the State of Israel even existed.
The "free Palestine" group should therefore have no bone to pick with them. Also, what does "free-Palestine" have to do with the liberation of Italy in 1945? They came specifically to attack the Jewish Brigade, because it is called "Jewish."
Is this not anti-semitism?
Click to expand...
The thing is Netanyahu is re-framing Israeli and jewish identity in a way that is fascist. It is bad for Israel and bad for jews. It is made worse because he is democratically elected and has the support of the Israeli population.
However outside Israel jews are protesting his war crimes and genocide in Gaza, he is doing his best to suppress this but is and will be ineffectual.
I'm not sure Israel can come back from the damage he and his allies have done, because attempts at 're-balancing' by the UK/US press are so obviously propaganda.
 
Updates on American University protests on the bbc here

"Genocide Joe" is snappier and more damaging than anything trump ever came up with.
 
MVV said:
The thing is Netanyahu is re-framing Israeli and jewish identity in a way that is fascist. It is bad for Israel and bad for jews. It is made worse because he is democratically elected and has the support of the Israeli population.
However outside Israel jews are protesting his war crimes and genocide in Gaza, he is doing his best to suppress this but is and will be ineffectual.
I'm not sure Israel can come back from the damage he and his allies have done, because attempts at 're-balancing' by the UK/US press are so obviously propaganda.
Click to expand...
The thing that worries me is that I still haven't seen the Jewish establishment condemning Israel's actions in Gaza - orthodox or not orthodox. Yes, there are Jews who do so, people who identify as Jews. But Judaism is a well organised religion in the UK, with spokesmen. And if the bodies which represent it say nothing to point out the moral reprehensibility of the mass slaughter of Palestinian innocents, then those Jews who do so are easily dismissed as outliers, extremists, dreamers and madmen.
 
Peter Dyer said:
Dr Agnes Callamard from Amnesty International on how we're regressing back to before1945 and are pretty much stuffed as a species.
A big up to Democracy Now! for their output.

Click to expand...
Otherwise known as the Crazy Hideous Age Of Stupid.

I think we're past the point of no return on this now...
 
mandryka said:
The thing that worries me is that I still haven't seen the Jewish establishment condemning Israel's actions in Gaza - orthodox or not orthodox. Yes, there are Jews who do so, people who identify as Jews. But Judaism is a well organised religion in the UK, with spokesmen. And if the bodies which represent it say nothing to point out the moral reprehensibility of the mass slaughter of Palestinian innocents, then those Jews who do so are easily dismissed as outliers, extremists, dreamers and madmen.
Click to expand...

The Chief Rabbi is cheering the IDF on.
 
PaulMB said:
In Netanyahu's vision of things you are perfectly right. But I'll give an example of how anti-Israeli feeling has become anti-semitic:

Today was a national holiday in Italy, "Giornata della Liberazione." This celebrates April 25, 1945, when Italy was liberated from German occupation and its Italian Fascist allies. By tradition, it is also the annual holiday that celebrates "anti-Fascism" as the basis of Italy's subsequent democracy. There are rallies and speeches all over the country, programmes on TV, and so on.
Among those that always take part are the Partisan's Association (by now with very few surviving actual partisans), the trades unions, the political party representatives, and a delegation that commemorates the role of the Jewish Brigade in the liberation of Italy.
Today, the Jewish Brigade contingent was jostled and verbally abused by people with Palestinian flags, and would have been physically attacked but for the police.
Now, the Jewish Brigade fought in north Africa and Italy, before the State of Israel even existed.
The "free Palestine" group should therefore have no bone to pick with them. Also, what does "free-Palestine" have to do with the liberation of Italy in 1945? They came specifically to attack the Jewish Brigade, because it is called "Jewish."
Is this not anti-semitism?
Click to expand...
You say this is anti-Israeli feeling that has become anti-semitic. Maybe it is. But I'm going to argue that that doesn't make it a special horror in a world and a human history full of horror. The reason anti-semitism has become so widely regarded as an especially or even uniquely horrible black sin is, obviously, because the of holocaust, and then PR that has used to holocaust to make it so. But it is not the case, I don't think, that anti-semitism is inherently different or worse that any other particular sort of racial or ethnic hate. It's long history, and its horrendous apogee under the Nazis, are, in the end, historical happenstance. Given the modern world's technological abilities, it's increasing population densities, and the nature of the hatreds and nationalisms that continue to flourish, it's only a matter of time before history throws up a new holocaust of similar or greater body count. That will be happenstance too.

I absolutely affirm that anti-semitism is serious, and reprehensible, and possibly even more widely-spread than other ethnic hate. I am just saying it's not special and unique. I'm saying that hatred of Blacks, or Islamics, or Catholics, or Protestants, or Latinos, or Arabs, or Americans, etc, etc, etc is fully and equally as serious and reprehensible. Also, being hated does not make the target of hate righteous. Being hated does not entitle the target to any special privilege--not morally, legally, or politically. Being hated does not make reciprocal hate justified. Being hated does not make the haters 'animals,' who forfeit the rights of human beings. They are, of course, all too human, but it's a signal indicator of reciprocal hate to claim otherwise.
 

Pro-Palestinian protests reach Australia​

Students have set up tents at the University of Sydney, where they have been chanting slogans similar to those voiced in the US, such as calls for divesting from Israeli-linked companies.
“A couple of 100 turned up in a very sort of peaceful, orderly Australian snapshot of this global pro-Palestinian student movements,” said Al Jazeera’s Alex Thomas.
The students have also been chanting slogans against Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese for his policy towards Israel and Gaza, calling on the government to strongly condemn the violence there, Thomas said.

www.aljazeera.com

Israel War on Gaza | Live updates | Today's latest from Al Jazeera

Little girl dies in Gaza hospital after her health deteriorated and medical teams were unable to save her.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top