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Voter suppression: UK Voter ID

miktec said:
Perhaps instead of slagging off those who are critical of Tory policy with the usual trite insults you could take the time provide a robust argument to support this otherwise petty, needless and restrictive measure.

... thought not .... :rolleyes:
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I have. To prove you are who you say you are. Not rocket science. As I said, there are those who moan.
 
Ponty said:
I have. To prove you are who you say you are. Not rocket science. As I said, there are those who moan.
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I did ask for a robust argument - and not just more trite bullshit to add to the heap...

Although to be honest, I wasn't expecting anything even remotely compelling so you didn't disappoint. :D
 
miktec said:
^^^^^
Looks to me like the words of a proclaimer who has come across an obstacle :D

You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time doing exactly this ... 'the Tories can do no wrong so wind your neck in' ... rather than putting forward a strong defence of their tactics.
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I think you must be a bit too eager to pigeon hole everyone to suit you vision of the world.
You have obviously never read anything I’ve ever posted with even a modicum of insight into what I am trying to say.
I think this thread has merit, but all stories have 100 sides, as does this. Suggesting that does not make me a Tory, and the simple fact that this needs explaining underlines the limited insight you are showing here.
I vote green, and if that makes small sense in a particular situation, then I’d consider SNP or, were they more left, Labour.
I probably would be happier keeping away from these threads but felt your rudeness should be briefly answered.
In short then:
Yes, the Tory party has a department which uses every trick it can think of to promote election success.
Yes, it’s underhand, but your own party are also doing it. It’s normal.
So, we think it’s bad But, ( and here we diverge), I think that there is already a simple solution, and have therefore moved on, and you prefer to stand around feeling hard done by and talking about it all.
Fine. We’re different? So? We each choose how to live. You crack on, and so will I but, as said, I don’t have time for rudeness from anyone so, not acceptable, please ease up.
Hope that’s clear now.
 
Rockmeister said:
I think you must be a bit too eager to pigeon hole everyone to suit you vision of the world.
You have obviously never read anything I’ve ever posted with even a modicum of insight into what I am trying to say.
I think this thread has merit, but all stories have 100 sides, as does this. Suggesting that does not make me a Tory, and the simple fact that this needs explaining underlines the limited insight you are showing here.
I vote green, and if that makes small sense in a particular situation, then I’d consider SNP or, were they more left, Labour.
I probably would be happier keeping away from these threads but felt your rudeness should be briefly answered.
In short then:
Yes, the Tory party has a department which uses every trick it can think of to promote election success.
Yes, it’s underhand, but your own party are also doing it. It’s normal.
So, we think it’s bad But, ( and here we diverge), I think that there is already a simple solution, and have therefore moved on, and you prefer to stand around feeling hard done by and talking about it all.
Fine. We’re different? So? We each choose how to live. You crack on, and so will I but, as said, I don’t have time for rudeness from anyone so, not acceptable, please ease up.
Hope that’s clear now.
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There’s a simple solution, on an individual level, for those who are motivated to vote. But many people are not motivated to vote. That problem doesn’t even register at an individual level - it’s a political problem, one that this measure might be interpreted as exploiting for party political benefit.

As I say though it’s on Labour if they can’t be arsed to address the root problem, which is motivating people to vote. Offer young people something, anything, and they’ll probably take the time to get some ID.
 
It would be a lot simpler if we all just had National ID cards. I’m surprised no-one’s thought of that.
 
Mullardman said:
Correction, my Passport expires Aug 2024, and as yet I have no plans to go anywhere forrin' in the near future. Why would I want to spend a second away from:
This royal throne of kings, this scepter’d isle,
This earth of majesty, this seat of Mars,
This other Eden, demi-paradise,
This fortress built by Nature for herself
Against infection and the hand of war,
This happy breed of men, this little world,
This precious stone set in the silver sea,
Which serves it in the office of a wall
Or as a moat defensive to a house,
Against the envy of less happier lands,
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England.... :rolleyes:
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Del Trotter had it right when he called it 'this septic isle'...
 
Nye Samuel said:
I will correct you ..sophistry is a plausible argument that is false...that sums up your argument.
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No, Sophistry is an action:
‘The use of clever, but false arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving’
With no intention to deceive, there in no Sophistry. I’m not subtle enough for it, nor, thankfully, for politics.
 
miktec said:
You started it sunshine ... so reap what you sow.
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What are you 3? You said that so I had to be rude nah nah? Hahaha. Ok, I’m gone. It’s what ignore buttons are for. I’ll miss your photos though.
Nah, only joking….they’re rubbish.
 
Rockmeister said:
No, Sophistry is an action:
‘The use of clever, but false arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving’
With no intention to deceive, there in no Sophistry. I’m not subtle enough for it, nor, thankfully, for politics.
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Your grasp of English might need some revision, particularly where it relates to the word 'especially' ... :D
 
kensalriser said:
I was one of those howls of protest. Who I am is my business and I don't want an agent of the state to have the power to demand to see my papers at any time of their choosing.
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I'm a bit conflicted on this. Agents of the state already have powers to stop, search, or require access to ID in prescribed circumstances. Having or not having an ID card doesn't change that. And my friends and colleagues who come from countries with ID cards, France for example, tell me they find them very useful. So it's not the ID card itself that is the 'problem' so much as what powers the state might someday take for itself in relation to them.

So I don't have a problem with ID cards in principle, nor in practice so long as things are broadly as they are now. But once everybody is obliged to hold one, if the state gets all Braverman on our collective asses, we've made it easier.

To my mind, ID cards have lots of upsides, few downsides, but some potentially significant downstream risks as above. We'd be better off doing what we can to push back on any state overreach, than deny ourselves a tool which many find very useful in their daily lives.
 
Of course, none of this will be an issue after a while once babies start being injected with some sort of RFID into the bloodstream at birth.
 
Rockmeister said:
No, Sophistry is an action:
‘The use of clever, but false arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving’
With no intention to deceive, there in no Sophistry. I’m not subtle enough for it, nor, thankfully, for politics.
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I disagree with you.
 
I have thought for some time how to remove the age bias in voting. As a generalisation, younger people are less likely to vote even though they have the most vested interest in doing so; but generally political parties are not interested in the younger vote as it is not potent enough.

The younger generation have more vested interest in long term solutions and policies from our government than older people; in general according to YouGuv; over-65s were more than twice as likely as under-25s to have voted to Leave the European Union. In essence those with less time on planet earth get to tell those with more time, how they will live their lives.

My solution - Give the younger generation more votes. Why should older people with less time to live in 'the system' have the same say as to how it works?

If you are under 30 you get 3 votes
If you are over 30 but not retired (65) you get 2 votes
If you are retired (over 65) you get 1 vote

It would never be adopted. However, it would encourage politicians to engage with the younger audience and take seriously their concerns regarding economic policy and environmental issues and also to start planning much longer term than the current system; where long term planning doesn't happen due to the short term nature of a governing party.
Just in case you are wondering - I would get 2 votes
Jay
 
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