Vitus integrated amps surpass Naim 500 series?

[Woodface]

I heard an advanced Naim system played via SBL speakers at a Dealers in Tottenham Court Rd many years ago, I read so much in forums about this magic Naim does via SBL speakers, but when I heard them I was underwhelmed, it was not a bad sound, but for me it sounded just polite, I suppose I was expecting something exciting in musical terms. I used to own a Naim system (more entry level) which I remember was very good for band performances Eg The Pogues but not so good for classical music. Its all a subjective hobby...

Never felt SBLs were polite but they do need to be properly sited. I can fully understand why people may not care for the though; they are far from kind to modern compressed recordings.

 

[heihei]

I think one of the problems we have as audiophiles is the sheer amount of choice. Having more choices appears to be appealing initially but too many choices can make decisions more difficult. There was a psychologist in the 1950s called George Miller who said that a consumer can only process seven items at a time. After that he/she would have to create a coping strategy to make an informed decision. This can lead to consumer's being indecisive, unhappy, and even refrain from making the purchase at all. Then the chap behind the famous 1970 book 'Future Shock' (Alvin Toffler) famously said that freedom of more choices becomes the opposite - the "unfreedom". And in the world of Hi-Fi the matters are made worse as sampling the available choice is not at all easy. The ways we have to navigate through the deep forest of choice are:

1. Sampling the choice BUT demoing is not easy as there are fewer retailers around and home demoing even harder. And to genuinely compare products you ideally need different options in the same (ideally your own) room around the same time.
2. Reviews BUT these are largely a waste of time as almost every review is positive. You can train yourself to look for odd words which at least describe the character of the sound, but it ain't easy.
3. Forums. These can be good for helping narrow your choices BUT generally most people evangelically tell the world how great their own choice is.
4. Hifi Shows. BUT the rooms are often poor and if you find a sound you like you have no way of knowing which element in the source/amps/speakers is contributing most to the sound you are hearing or if it is system synergy.
5. Friends systems/Bake-offs. Good for hearing what others' real-world systems sound like BUT like (4) it is room-based and system-based.
6. Buying and selling in the second-hand market. This is a good way of testing different options at low cost as you can often sell on for close to what you bought at, especially if you buy off people rather than dealers. BUT it is a huge hassle to do it and the costs of sale and shipping and resolving problems often make it just too much as a means of sampling products to find the best.

In my movement away from Naim I home demoed six different brands of amps, thirteen different pairs speakers (most at home), 5 speaker cables, 4 mains cables and 6 interconnects. It was an exhausting 18 months of my life. Enjoyable at times, but not something I would want to do again.

So this is why brands that offer you a way to limit your choice can be so successful. The Naim route of providing a single brand path to upgrading your amp is a piece of marketing genius: it limits your choice to a handful of upgrade options. All your upgrade choice is available within one brand of amps and power supplies. And one of the reasons I think that the Vitus philosophy appeals to those who are used to Naim is that Vitus also has a very clear path: from the Reference series, to the Signature Class A series, through to the Masterpiece series. Yes I know most brands also have a range of amps at a range of prices, but not many have the clarity of upgrade paths that Naim and Vitus have: an upgrade path which reduces choice to a psychologically acceptable number of options.


But I think there is more than just an easily digestible upgrade path as to why Vitus is a natural upgrade from Naim. People often reference Richard from Lotus being the single person who has created this perception but I think what Richard did was simply to articulate (and he did it very well in his essay) what he observed was happening. And this is that there does seem to be a truth in the way someone used to the Naim sound signature would find a move to the Vitus amps appealing. Although they are very different in sound there is something of the 'Naim' sound in the Vitus sound, that lively leading-edge driven sound is there but then the Vitus amps take it and move it somewhere different, which many middle-aged ears with their maturing musical tastes find appealing.

Great post this, and echos my own journey - at times enjoyable and at times painful. You've definitely got to be committed, and be prepared to upset a few dealers along the way, but it's probably the only way to fully "own" the process of building a system.

 

[Mike Reed]

Never felt SBLs were polite but they do need to be properly sited.

My only adventure with SBLs was when a friend lent me a pair after I'd lent him my Briks (which he kept). With 52/135s they were fine but one characteristic left a lasting impression. The sound was cool; by that I mean there was no warmth to evoke the emotion of some music. Next up were John Michell's ProAc R3s. Chalk and cheese has never been more sonically appropriate. Onward and upward with ProAc, altogether more synergistic than the SBLs, oddly.

 

[Woodface]

My only adventure with SBLs was when a friend lent me a pair after I'd lent him my Briks (which he kept). With 52/135s they were fine but one characteristic left a lasting impression. The sound was cool; by that I mean there was no warmth to evoke the emotion of some music. Next up were John Michell's ProAc R3s. Chalk and cheese has never been more sonically appropriate. Onward and upward with ProAc, altogether more synergistic than the SBLs, oddly.

I never found them cool but very incisive, I had Keilidhs before them. Never heard proacs so can’t really comment. I had them for about 15 years & really liked them. ATC40S are different level though.

 

[isapell]

I never found them cool but very incisive, I had Keilidhs before them. Never heard proacs so can’t really comment. I had them for about 15 years & really liked them. ATC40S are different level though.

I am very interested in your views on the SBLs and the differences to the ATCs, as I have just reinstated mine with a view to selling them after 10 years in storage but, to my surprise, am finding them rather addictive. I am now using a Yamaha AS3000 amplifier and discovering that they sound far, far better than they ever did with mid-range Naim amplification and considerably better than the speakers I have been using over the past 10 years.

I was therefore wondering to what extent you thought the improvement you have noticed since using the ATCs was linked to the change in amplification. Did you get a chance to try the passive version? And surely they are equally unforgiving of compressed recordings? Is there a downside to the ATCs, or is everything better, and do I just not yet know what I'm missing!?

Phillip

 

[Woodface]

I am very interested in your views on the SBLs and the differences to the ATCs, as I have just reinstated mine with a view to selling them after 10 years in storage but, to my surprise, am finding them rather addictive. I am now using a Yamaha AS3000 amplifier and discovering that they sound far, far better than they ever did with mid-range Naim amplification and considerably better than the speakers I have been using over the past 10 years.

I was therefore wondering to what extent you thought the improvement you have noticed since using the ATCs was linked to the change in amplification. Did you get a chance to try the passive version? And surely they are equally unforgiving of compressed recordings? Is there a downside to the ATCs, or is everything better, and do I just not yet know what I'm missing!?

Phillip

My ATCs are active so obviously benefit from the inherent strengths of that, however, the quality of drive units & build is top notch.

The ATCs are much fuller in range & the midband is incredible, voices are very palpable. Bear in mind I am running a CDX/xps2/252/SC ahead of them & the SBLs were around £2k new. The combined cost of a nap250/SBLs in today’s money is probably on a par with the current list of the ATCs?

I have never listened to ATCs passive but I am convinced they would better the SBLs. I think the ATCs are a little more forgiving than the SBLs but also more insightful & revealing; I appreciate this sounds contradictory.

 

[isapell]

My ATCs are active so obviously benefit from the inherent strengths of that, however, the quality of drive units & build is top notch.

The ATCs are much fuller in range & the midband is incredible, voices are very palpable. Bear in mind I am running a CDX/xps2/252/SC ahead of them & the SBLs were around £2k new. The combined cost of a nap250/SBLs in today’s money is probably on a par with the current list of the ATCs?

I have never listened to ATCs passive but I am convinced they would better the SBLs. I think the ATCs are a little more forgiving than the SBLs but also more insightful & revealing; I appreciate this sounds contradictory.

Very interesting, thanks! Looks like I’m going to have to find a way to give them a listen!