Vitus integrated amps surpass Naim 500 series?

[Cyclopse]

Ha ha! I doubt that unless you're an octogenarian with unbalanced and depleted hearing ! I did say that I believe I MIGHT have heard a difference.



Must admit, this bit I don't get. 25 quality watts into most speakers is a heck of a lot (maybe apart from peaks), and surely it would be an extreme head-banging event with a very insensitive speaker to actually invoke the transition from A to AB.



Any idea of the wattage running class A? (I imagine it stays constant regardless of volume.) Which valves did you gravitate from, b.t.w., as I'm surprised that the Vitus creates that much less heat. Think my mono's are around 200 watts (a guess 'cos I can't be bothered to look for the manual), but of course there are two of them. Maybe the two class A mono's, not yet mentioned in this thread, would be contenders for a slight premium !

162 watts consumption in class A. I previously owned Nagra VPA so four 845 valves in total. It’s much more comfortable in summer now.

 

[varyat]

I agree with Duckworp's summary of the Vitus sound quality. My SIA 030 has settled in beautifully over the last 6 most or so. Heat in Class A is a non-issue for me, certainly not a radiator. I have made an interesting observation in the last few months...I no longer listen clinically to the amp as I did with my 552/500. I just play music.
I do feel that the SIA 030 can be an endpoint - massive dynamics, soundstage but delicately handles micro details that brings a natural presentation without harshness. Only thing that "bothers" me is not having a volume dial-I miss that.

 

[Charlie_1]

The guy in that video seems only interested in the nice sounds it makes. He doesn't seem to have any appreciation of the musical differences, or interest. I enjoyed AB in classical mode best.

Beast of an amp!

 

[Salamander]

I can't help thinking, Audionet would be an easier move than Vitus for Naim users. Another German brand that doesn't get enough coverage, Accustic Arts, not too sure about dealers in the uk, but it's good to see Musicraft now selling Audionet.

 

[MichaelC]

I agree with Duckworp's summary of the Vitus sound quality. My SIA 030 has settled in beautifully over the last 6 most or so. Heat in Class A is a non-issue for me, certainly not a radiator. I have made an interesting observation in the last few months...I no longer listen clinically to the amp as I did with my 552/500. I just play music.
I do feel that the SIA 030 can be an endpoint - massive dynamics, soundstage but delicately handles micro details that brings a natural presentation without harshness. Only thing that "bothers" me is not having a volume dial-I miss that.

That last comment is my only real gripe, hit the wrong button and it’s menus misery.

The reproduction of piano is a case in point. Nail on head for me, this evening I was playing some Lunatic Soul, the piano pieces, could well have been played on the piano in the living room. Nothing else has brought me that close to reality.

I couldn’t help but notice the Dohmann in your avatar, it was only a week or so ago that I had been pointed in that direction... A sign!

 

[Hound]

Just looked at the power it takes, in A/B mode its 100w per hour, so that works out about £150 a year, if you leave it on 24/7, think that right?
In class A its 175 w and in standby its 2.5w.
The naim 500dr and 552dr power supplies are 27w each, so quite a bit different, 54w for the naim when on and working, compared to 100w or 175w per hour.

Not that this matters that much i guess, but in this ever changing world it might to some, and can certainly see why it runs a lot warmer and the 2.5w standby is there.
Just to add, i guess mine might have run warmer, as i put it in my rack, rather than have it in total free air, but there is no denying it run warm, as most things will at 100w all the time min

 

[varyat]

MichaelC- the Dohmann is fantastic....definitely worthy of audition. I have a Helix2 which while larger than my LP12 still is fairly sensible in size for a record player. Highly recommended!

 

[stevec67]

Just looked at the power it takes, in A/B mode its 100w per hour, so that works out about £150 a year, if you leave it on 24/7, think that right?
In class A its 175 w and in standby its 2.5w.
The naim 500dr and 552dr power supplies are 27w each, so quite a bit different, 54w for the naim when on and working, compared to 100w or 175w per hour.

Not that this matters that much i guess, but in this ever changing world it might to some, and can certainly see why it runs a lot warmer and the 2.5w standby is there.
Just to add, i guess mine might have run warmer, as i put it in my rack, rather than have it in total free air, but there is no denying it run warm, as most things will at 100w all the time min

I can't imagine that anyone spending £10k+ on a hifi amp is very bothered about a £150 a year electricity bill. That's not even half a service on the Naim. In addition Class A amp manufacturers don't recommend that they be left switched on.

The main objection I can see to large amps, especially valves, is heat in the summer.

 

[stevec67]

As the OP of this thread it's been great to see the discussion generated. I don't have any background in electronics so can someone offer a quick summary of class A and class AB and explain why the former is better? And I take it that the Vitus 101 mk2 is still constrained to AB and you need the more expensive SIA025 for the class A experience? thanks.

The usual layman's explanation is that Class A is "always flat out" while AB throttles up and down. As a result it can be compared to 2 racing cars. The Class A racing car is flat out all the time and you control the speed with the brakes alone. It will have awful fuel consumption and the brakes will need massive cooling, but it will go like hell with instant full power acceleration. AB turns the power up and down like a conventional car, so all things being equal it can never match the Class A for acceleration alone. However Class A comes at a price and the huge brakes etc detract from the advantages.

don't push this analogy too far but it holds water to an extent.

 

[Colin L]

I used to have a Plinius 250 SA. 250 W pc in class A. Now that got warm.

When Ive heard Vitus amps I’ve really liked the sound. Quite different to Naim and IMO head and shoulders above.

 

[Hound]

I can't imagine that anyone spending £10k+ on a hifi amp is very bothered about a £150 a year electricity bill. That's not even half a service on the Naim. In addition Class A amp manufacturers don't recommend that they be left switched on.

The main objection I can see to large amps, especially valves, is heat in the summer.

Well £150 a year is a lot, plus the naim is about 10 years and 12 for the pre, thats a lot off £150.
Plus you say dont leave it on, well if you do that, you are looking at 2 days to warm up, before the class A is fully on song, not great for that hour a night quick session is it.
Plus the vitus will need to be serviced, especially if you leave it on 24/7. Not sure on the costs for that, as posting would be fun in itself.

I liked the vitus, i liked the one box, it just had a few negative points that for me was enough not to buy

 

[stevec67]

Well £150 a year is a lot, plus the naim is about 10 years and 12 for the pre, thats a lot off £150.
Plus you say dont leave it on, well if you do that, you are looking at 2 days to warm up, before the class A is fully on song, not great for that hour a night quick session is it.
Plus the vitus will need to be serviced, especially if you leave it on 24/7. Not sure on the costs for that, as posting would be fun in itself.

I liked the vitus, i liked the one box, it just had a few negative points that for me was enough not to buy

£150 a year is a lot? To whom? That's £3 a week, it won't even buy you a pint.
£150 is buttons for someone who puts £10k into an amp. No, sorry, just looked it up. £15k plus £13k. £28k on a depreciating asset and you sweat £3 a week?. That's like saying Rolls Royce owners worry about fuel consumption. As for leaving it on and 2 days to warm up, do Vitus say that? I doubt it. No other Class A manufacturer does so I'd say not.

 

[Mike Reed]

I used to have a Plinius 250 SA. 250 W pc in class A. Now that got warm.

I bet Jez would say that wasn't within the bounds of practical possibility, and that at some (early) stage the class A would morph to AB

There's a lot of hot air (!) above about leccy consumption and costs, but I remember someone on the thread saying that in standby, consumption is comparatively negligible.

I wonder how much my 552 and 135s (4 of those for a few years with 52) cost annually on 24/7. Probably more than firing up my valves when needed nowadays. I'd equate that to using a class A Vitus, I guess, apart from the standby bit.

 

[Mike Reed]

That last comment is my only real gripe, hit the wrong button and it’s menus misery.

Oh dear, Mike; that's a nail in the coffin for me. I have trouble with all my remotes ! As far as amplification is concerned, it's not a case of knobless oblige for me.

 

[stevec67]

I bet Jez would say that wasn't within the bounds of practical possibility, and that at some (early) stage the class A would morph to AB

There's a lot of hot air (!) above about leccy consumption and costs, but I remember someone on the thread saying that in standby, consumption is comparatively negligible.

I wonder how much my 552 and 135s (4 of those for a few years with 52) cost annually on 24/7. Probably more than firing up my valves when needed nowadays. I'd equate that to using a class A Vitus, I guess, apart from the standby bit.

I think he would. If Class A burns 2-3x the music output as heat, that's 500-750W per channel. 1-1.5kW. With fans you can cool it but it will make at domestic room smaller than a sports hall uncomfortably hot within a few hours.

 

[Hound]

£150 a year is a lot? To whom? That's £3 a week, it won't even buy you a pint.
£150 is buttons for someone who puts £10k into an amp. No, sorry, just looked it up. £15k plus £13k. £28k on a depreciating asset and you sweat £3 a week?. That's like saying Rolls Royce owners worry about fuel consumption. As for leaving it on and 2 days to warm up, do Vitus say that? I doubt it. No other Class A manufacturer does so I'd say not.

Well dont worry then, by the way the £150 is if you leave it on and 24/7 in class A/B, once you start using the amp in class A it goes up to 175w, per hour.
As for the 2 days, it was a vitus dealer that told me this, when i had it on demo, also told me to leave it class A for this, to speed it up.

Buy the way not sweating over the cost, but once you start to add all the hifi gear up, you really start to see the true costs off leaving it on all the time, i am sure we would all prefer a system that didnt use as much power, didnt take time to warm up, as i would rather have the money in my pocket to buy that pint, rather than not

 

[Colin L]

I bet Jez would say that wasn't within the bounds of practical possibility, and that at some (early) stage the class A would morph to AB

https://www.choicehifi.com/product/plinius-sa250-mkiv/

Yes, over a KW power draw when in class A. I had it in a very large room in the tropics so the AC’s were running all the time anyway. The amp would crackle with thermal expansion and contraction when put in and out of class A. A great amp, if perhaps unsuitable in the UK, except in the winter.

 

[duckworp]

The usual layman's explanation is that Class A is "always flat out" while AB throttles up and down. As a result it can be compared to 2 racing cars. The Class A racing car is flat out all the time and you control the speed with the brakes alone. It will have awful fuel consumption and the brakes will need massive cooling, but it will go like hell with instant full power acceleration. AB turns the power up and down like a conventional car, so all things being equal it can never match the Class A for acceleration alone. However Class A comes at a price and the huge brakes etc detract from the advantages.

don't push this analogy too far but it holds water to an extent.

This is a great analogy. I get asked the question a lot, this explains it really well.

 

[stevec67]

Well dont worry then, by the way the £150 is if you leave it on and 24/7 in class A/B, once you start using the amp in class A it goes up to 175w, per hour.
As for the 2 days, it was a vitus dealer that told me this, when i had it on demo, also told me to leave it class A for this, to speed it up.

Buy the way not sweating over the cost, but once you start to add all the hifi gear up, you really start to see the true costs off leaving it on all the time, i am sure we would all prefer a system that didnt use as much power, didnt take time to warm up, as i would rather have the money in my pocket to buy that pint, rather than not

The 2 days is burn in of a new item. It doesn't take 2 days to warm up every time you turn it on. As far as saving money goes, if you have well over £20k in amplifiers then I'll say again that £150 in electricity, let's go mad and leave the CD, tuner, streamer and everything else on to get to £200 a year is a drop in the ocean alongside your depreciation and service costs on the very definition of a luxury item.

If you prefer one to another, say so, but give over on the electricity cost.

 

[Hound]

It wasnt new it was a demo model, only saying what i was told from a vitus dealer, from cold expect 2 days to fully warm up.
Plus i am not the one going on about the power consumption you are, i only just stated what it is and how much it will cost to leave on 24/7 in class A/B and the difference in just class A.

Like i said i did like the sound in class A, but the way it works didn't suit my listening style