ks.234
Half way to Infinity
No he isn’t. Not all the 52% voted for no deal.
Vast Brexit thread merge part I
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No he isn’t. Not all the 52% voted for no deal.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
52% voted to leave the EU, and leaving the EU means leaving the institutions of the EU.
Your not really still rehearsing that one. 52% of those who could be bothered to vote in what was the largest turnout ever, voted to leave the EU. Polls regularly suggest that those who did so have retained their position.
gingermrkettle
Deep vein trombonist
As I have said before, the backstop is idiot insurance. Boris has made it clear again today that it continues to be necessary, I see no time limit to him being an idiot.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
KS, I didn't vote 'to leave without a (withdrawal) deal', but the EU is refusing to negotiate one that is acceptable, so options are becoming a bit limited.
Tony L
Administrator
<moderating>
The two large multi-part threads on Brexit (Oh Britain...and the Johnson No Confidence vote) were both well overdue a split so I’ve locked them both and combined the most recent posts into this new thread. The aim being to declutter the off-topic room a little, there is just far too much Brexit stuff distracting from other interesting and entirely unrelated content IMO.
The two large multi-part threads on Brexit (Oh Britain...and the Johnson No Confidence vote) were both well overdue a split so I’ve locked them both and combined the most recent posts into this new thread. The aim being to declutter the off-topic room a little, there is just far too much Brexit stuff distracting from other interesting and entirely unrelated content IMO.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
I agree that the UK were underprepared—but both parties at least wanted at that time to respect the GFA.
As for you other points in later posts, we have a WA. It's just you and the hard Brexiteers don't like it.
Your way around the backstop is to say that the UK/EU border is not a problem.
But it is.
In Ireland, Spain, the Falklands and overseas territories everywhere that are being currently ignored.
Stephen
Nope, but some are.... the point is you may or may not have racist beliefs, but are you happy to be associated with those that definitely do?
You keep saying this, but it's a blatant untruth. We have no idea how many of your beloved 52% wanted a no deal Brexit so to glibly trot out it being the will of the majority as fact is frankly utter nonsense, but not surprising given the precedent set by pro leave campaigners. That's before we even debate what the term majority actually means.
Not over something as fundamental as this and not to the extent Johnson is no!
No, it really won't... not a chance!
And finally we get to the usual excuse of the Leave camp... it's all Corbyn's fault. Maybe if we didn't have a media in the pockets of the government and a sheep like percentage of the population that can't think for itself the true picture of Labour and the other parties would be allowed to be presented and people would give some of the other political parties a chance...but then again FPTP screws that up anyway so what's the point!
glancaster
In the silicon vale
In my view the latter thread was not really about Brexit. Certainly, it is possible to believe that Johnson is a bad PM, who should be replaced ASAP, regardless of where you stand on his or anyone else's Brexit policy.
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
Stephen, it isn't just 'hard brexiters' who don't like the WA. The WA isn't acceptable because it traps the UK, potentially in perpetuity, as an EU vassal.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
Can you name a 'soft Brexiteer' who is against it? i.e voted against it three times?
Ignore the opposition—this is Tory—owned shit&storm. They voted against the WA for other reasons.
It was the ERG and and europhiles who brought the WA down.
Stephen
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
But only if there is no answer/problem to the EU/UK border in Ireland. Which the ERG/Government says there is!
You and they can't have it both ways.
Stephen
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
By the same construct, are you as a (theoretical) vegetarian happy to be associated with Hitler.
Or are you as a remainer happy to be associated with someone who has been widely vilified as a mass murderer?
Its all bollocks. I'm not going to re-respond to your other points because it all just goes round in circles, and my life is vanishing. Needless to say, I profoundly disagree with them.
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
Shall we prorogue the thread until October?
Stephen
Stephen
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
But that the EU will almost certainly never agree to. It's a construct, and you know it, and we can see in the link that I made above somewhere, it is a construct that predates the referendum.
The only way that the EU will concede technical/alternative solutions is if it has no choice, which is in a no deal scenario. You can then guarantee that such solutions will then suddenly materialise, as if by magic.
ks.234
Half way to Infinity
You did say, albeit a few years ago, that you voted to stay in the CU and the SM, a position totally unacceptable to many other Leave voters. Regardless of your position now, the Leave vote is spilt between no dealers and dealers. Dealers is further spilt between Norway, Canada, La La Land + and a few other options. In amongst that mix are several positions that are likewise unacceptable to others.
The 52% is not an homogenous block and it is undemocratic to take it as such.
Theresa May rightly gets the blame for all sorts, but Brexit at least was not her fault. Any deal negotiated by anyone would be totally unacceptable to one camp in Leave or another. The Leave vote is so spilt and unrepresentative that it cannot be represented by one position or one deal.
It is disingenuous to blame May or the EU for this mess. The blame is entirely with those people who voted Leave without a plan, or even an agreement on what Leave meant.
We’re divided because Leave is divided.
We’re confused because Leave is confused.
We’re in a chaos because Leave is chaos.
And we’re in an unconstitutional crisis because taking back control has put a liar and a baffoon in charge of our country.
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gavreid
Pretty Words...
Have I touched a nerve?
You're not going to respond to them because you don't have an argument that stands up!
stephen bennett
Mr Enigma
But I thought we held 'all the cards'?
Well, I guess we'll see in November. I think it more likely that we'll get May's WA or some close relation. I suspect it'd get through the Commons if presented today.
Stephen
eternumviti
Insufficient privileges to reply.
I suspect you may be right.
gary1064
pfm Member
My mother voted to remain in the common market in 1975 but voted leave in 2016. She's not in favour of closer integration, but would welcome the return to (in her words) a "trading club". She was persuaded that the Norway option as touted during the campaign would deliver this, subsequently rebranded as "Common Market 2.0" if I recall correctly. She's appalled at the thought of a no-deal Brexit.
My father-in-law equally voted in (1975) and leave (2016). He wants "Britain to have a chance of being great again" (whatever that means), and desires the hardest possible Brexit. He's appalled at the thought of anything other than a no-deal Brexit.
We can't move on until what leave means is defined. If Parliament can't decide then surely it has to go back to the people?
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