Valhalla Electronics Zeus LP12 controller

[Eyebroughty]

Hi,

If I recall in the early days, late 70's and early 80's the marketing and demos of the LP12 were based around the fact that direct drive turntables reacted so fast that they altered the pitch of the note(s) as they adjusted the speed back to a perfect 33.3 rpm.

The LP12 slowly adjusted the speed back to 33.3 rpm so you would not notice any imperfections in speed.

However as was also noted at the time record cutting lathes were said not to be 100% accurate at keeping to 33.3 rpm, at some point Linn went and started making records on their own record cutting lathe which was made to be perfect at keeping it at 33.3 rpm.

So did that mean that the direct drive turntables then played Linn records perfectly and the LP12 did not?

Also if I recall one of the main reasons why Naim and Linn made external supplies to power the motor was to keep the cartridges from picking up noise from the valhalla board, some people even removed the valhalla and placed it in a box external to the LP12, then again maybe Linn heard about this and thought it was a good idea, like Naim did.

Just saying

Cheers

John

 

[Joe]

.

Silly question but is that canister part of a Rega or is that a special made item you engineered?

The "canister" is a very heavy and very damped motor pod I designed for my deck.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

@Joe
Nice table. Is it your own design?

 

[Mr Pig]

With the right controller it works just fine.

The motors Rega are supplying now don't have the two flanges for mounting with screws. Been looking for an older style one but no luck yet.

 

[Joe]

@Joe
Nice table. Is it your own design?

It is.

 

[Paul R]

The motors Rega are supplying now don't have the two flanges for mounting with screws. Been looking for an older style one but no luck yet.

Have you approached McLennan direct?

 

[Mr Pig]

Have you approached McLennan direct?

No, not tried that, but I need the board the Neo plugs into anyway.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

It is.

Nice job!

You must have a lathe (somewhere) in your life.

Can I assume the base platform is a carbon-fibre balsa sandwich? Yummy!

 

[SONDEKNZ]

[Just in case anyone missed this question on the other LP12 UPGRADES thread…]


INTERNAL POWER SUPPLY versus EXTERNAL POWER SUPPLY?

I remember when the HERCULES II was offered in the MOSE external case, almost all users reported amazing sonic improvements having moved the electronics from beneath the platter.

What do others think of the ZEUS Internal versus ZEUS External in this regard?

If there were no difference in sonics, I'd install the ZEUS Internal in a flash!

Thoughts?

 

[Joe]

Nice job!

You must have a lathe (somewhere) in your life.

Can I assume the base platform is a carbon-fibre balsa sandwich? Yummy!

No and no.

I know a very skilled man with a lathe. Very few hobbyists possess a lathe with the throw and the chuck size to machine a turntable platter.

The plinth is just a slab of Panzerholz with a 0.5 mm carbon sheet PU bonded to the top for purely aesthetic reasons.

 

[Joe]

[, almost all users reported amazing sonic improvements having moved the electronics from beneath the platter.



Thoughts?

What people report and what is fact don't dwell in the same dimension .

Everything is just someones opinion.

This was mine.

 

[nobeone]

Anybody reporting amazing sonic improvements is obviously delude or massively exaggerating. Mose did two things at once: added power filtering; and got the Hercules out of the plinth. It did seem to be a slight improvement on Valhalla to me. But then the real deal was it added 45 rpm and I have a decent mix of 33 and 45 so that is important to me.

PCB design and noise has come a long way since Valhalla and I can well believe modern design practice of multiple layer PCBs with external ground/power planes and careful design could reduce a lot of the radiated noise that would come from older simple designs that predate CE mark EMC testing. I suspect Lingo 4 in plinth electronics is dramatically quieter than Valhalla for example. As always YMMV but I would be less concerned at putting a well designed modern PCB in a plinth than stuff from many decades ago.

I took a complex micro processor design of a colleague for EMC testing a few years ago and the test house had to ask me if I had forgotten to turn it on to as it made next to no difference on their sweeps

 

[sq225917]

I noticed a tiny difference between tracks after outboarding an lp12 psu, couldntvtell with music playing

 

[Paul R]

If I recall in the early days, late 70's and early 80's the marketing and demos of the LP12 were based around the fact that direct drive turntables reacted so fast that they altered the pitch of the note(s) as they adjusted the speed back to a perfect 33.3 rpm.

This was typical hifi marketing bollocks...

The LP12 slowly adjusted the speed back to 33.3 rpm so you would not notice any imperfections in speed.

The AC motor in the LP12 cannot but run at constant speed (may not be the correct speed of course...).

Also if I recall one of the main reasons why Naim and Linn made external supplies to power the motor was to keep the cartridges from picking up noise from the valhalla board, some people even removed the valhalla and placed it in a box external to the LP12, then again maybe Linn heard about this and thought it was a good idea, like Naim did.

I think it goes something like,

An electronic power supply is a good idea. We get a nice switch, we can sell the same turntable all over the world. Performance will be more consistent in parts of the world with less than amazing mains. Perhaps it also sounds better. If we connect it direct to the mains we can put inside the deck without needing a transformer, so it won't cause any additional hum.

Hence Valhalla.

Lingo gives 45rpm, safety since now isolated from the mains, is able to start the turntable at a high voltage and then drop it after speed is reached so smoother. Much reduced electrical activity inside the deck. So that makes sense and ought to sound better.

I've no idea what Naim were up to. I think it's a transformer fetish.

Lingo 4 uses a 12v motor, so the electronics no longer needs to run on a 200v rail. It measures the platter speed and adjusts its frequency to establish 33rpm. So no need for service to adjust speed by tilting the motor. It (presumably) can do a nice ramped up start so the deck becomes smoother to operate, no belt slip so reduced wear and longer life. It might also sound better.

Radikal uses a DC motor, This is much smoother than an AC motor which pulses at 50Hz however you drive it. May therefore sound better.

There are real performance differences between the PSUs over time, audibility and value are of course in the ear of the listener.

 

[Zombie]

Here it is, sorry to include miself in the pic, but thought I'd give the lady lurkers a weekend treat

 

[per-Sony-fied]

.



The "canister" is a very heavy and very damped motor pod I designed for my deck.

That's much bigger than I thought. Never gonna fit an LP12 - skuppered my plans

Nice turntable tho'.

 

[John]

I was fortunate to get a good comparison of the Lingo vs Valhalla when the Lingo was first introduced. Linn made up external boxes for Valhalla boards that allowed dealers to use the same LP12 for the comparison. The same power cable coming from the LP12 was used to power the deck. One just had to move the plug between the Lingo and external Valhalla box to show the difference.

It was a very cost effective solution for the dealer who could easily show the difference using their top equipped LP12 on hand without having to invest in a costly second deck. Using the exact same turntable was even more powerful as there was no question of one turntable being setup differently.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

Anybody reporting amazing sonic improvements is obviously delude or massively exaggerating. Mose did two things at once: added power filtering; and got the Hercules out of the plinth. It did seem to be a slight improvement on Valhalla to me. But then the real deal was it added 45 rpm and I have a decent mix of 33 and 45 so that is important to me.

PCB design and noise has come a long way since Valhalla and I can well believe modern design practice of multiple layer PCBs with external ground/power planes and careful design could reduce a lot of the radiated noise that would come from older simple designs that predate CE mark EMC testing. I suspect Lingo 4 in plinth electronics is dramatically quieter than Valhalla for example. As always YMMV but I would be less concerned at putting a well designed modern PCB in a plinth than stuff from many decades ago.

I took a complex micro processor design of a colleague for EMC testing a few years ago and the test house had to ask me if I had forgotten to turn it on to as it made next to no difference on their sweeps

Great thoughts! Appreciated.

 

[mickhick1]

I know the ZEUS / MINOS both have some variation, in terms of how much voltage is applied to the motor, but I’m thinking a drop from 110V to 12V will be a no-go

According to the set up manual for the DIY Audio version I have, the motor controller can set voltage in the range of 5 - 100 v rms. The default is 85 v.

 

[SONDEKNZ]

According to the set up manual for the DIY Audio version I have, the motor controller can set voltage in the range of 5 - 100 v rms. The default is 85 v.

Great intel!

That’s so very impressive - and gives users a very wide choice of AC motors to choose from.

I wonder if the same wide range of voltage found its way through to current production ZEUS and MINOS.

Does anyone know?