windhoek
The Phoolosopher
Heads up: Walls Vegan Classic Magum 3-pack and Walls Vegan Almond Magnum 3-pack are £2 each instore and online @ Tesco - you know what to do 
V-talk: vegan, vegetarian and verisimilitude
- Thread starter windhoek
- Start date
It's about 1.2 to 1. It certainly would be if the rice were spheres of identical size. High school chemistry tells us that hexagonal close packing of spheres is 21% space, so you are looking at filling that 21% space and then adding 100%. In practice it will not be perfect HCP but I'm guessing that you and your daughter don't measure the depth with a micrometer, unless your finger is specially calibrated, so I reckon given the inherent errors in the measuring equipment and protocol that 1.2 to 1 is close enough.
I cook my rice using measures. For 2 people ½ cup measure of rice to 1 cup measure of water. Add salt and a bit of butter or oil. Bring to boil on high heat move to smallest burner on low with tightly fitting lid for ten minutes. Turn off heat. Ready to serve then or keep lid on until ready
I just looked it up, I am undone! It's 26% space! So reckon on nearer 1.3 to 1. Unless she fails to tamp down. Or there's a large quantity of fines. Or cylindrical rice grains pack differently to spheres.
*sigh* It's almost like being back at work. I need to do some measurements on a rice silo.
*sigh* It's almost like being back at work. I need to do some measurements on a rice silo.
deebster
Half Man Half Biscuit
Ha, just as I liked your post as well.
I've had an entertaining imaginary conversation of me trying to explain all this to Lady Thai Jasmine.
Bought a rice cooker in the home of decent rice, and the instructions are pretty simple. Put the rice in the bowl, once you've finished the washing, add water until it is one forefinger thickness above the rice, put the lid on an hit the on switch.
I wouldn't be afraid to add water if necessary, so always go for the safe side of neutral. My preference is Thai or Basmati rice. Always wash the rice in the bowl thrice.The aim is to wash away the flour they add, though, to be honest you'll find it hard to get rid of most of it, and won't notice a heap of difference. That's also because, I lived in a place where water was scarce a couple of times per year.
Worth pointing out that you should use the rice of the country with the cuisine of the same. Also, I believe that basmati is cooked with salt in India, but I never add salt to any rice. Not being a purist nor a heathen, just can't be bothered.
I wouldn't be afraid to add water if necessary, so always go for the safe side of neutral. My preference is Thai or Basmati rice. Always wash the rice in the bowl thrice.The aim is to wash away the flour they add, though, to be honest you'll find it hard to get rid of most of it, and won't notice a heap of difference. That's also because, I lived in a place where water was scarce a couple of times per year.
Worth pointing out that you should use the rice of the country with the cuisine of the same. Also, I believe that basmati is cooked with salt in India, but I never add salt to any rice. Not being a purist nor a heathen, just can't be bothered.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
I'm booked-up for a covid vaccine this Saturday but I don't think I'll be going through with it. I was reading this article @ the BBC about plumbers employed by Pimlico potentially being required to be vaccinated to gain/retain employment and the article happened to mention that vegans, along with members of certain other groups, may have a legitimate reason to refuse an otherwise mandatory requirement to be vaccinated, should it ever become legally tenable/enforceable.
I hadn't done any previous reading on the vaccines as I assumed that they'd be safe and that was that, no read-up required; I never gave it a moment's thought as to whether any of the vaccines contained animal products, and neither did I consider whether any of the vaccines had been tested on animals in the process of coming to market. From what I can tell, neither the Pfizer/BioNTech nor the AstraZeneca vaccines contain animal products. But both list animal testing as part of the vaccine proving process: mice, rats, macaques, ferrets and pigs being the animals cited in relation to testing between the two vaccine providers. I couldn't find the relevant information on the Moderna vaccine; perhaps it's still being prepped for release by the MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency) as it was the last of the three vaccines currently approved within the UK to gain approval, apparently. Below are links to information about each vaccine as they appear on the MHRA website:
Pfizer/BioNTech
AstraZeneca
I'm not required to be vaccinated; although it's probably fair to say that as a social care worker, I'm probably expected - by both my employer and the people with whom I work - to be vaccinated. But now that I know animals have been harmed in the making of the vaccine, as it were, I honestly don't think I can go through with it. It would be like drinking milk again: swallowing the sweet taste of life at the expense of inhumane suffering and death. I think I'll need to let my employer know how I feel about it and that I'll be giving it a miss.
I hadn't done any previous reading on the vaccines as I assumed that they'd be safe and that was that, no read-up required; I never gave it a moment's thought as to whether any of the vaccines contained animal products, and neither did I consider whether any of the vaccines had been tested on animals in the process of coming to market. From what I can tell, neither the Pfizer/BioNTech nor the AstraZeneca vaccines contain animal products. But both list animal testing as part of the vaccine proving process: mice, rats, macaques, ferrets and pigs being the animals cited in relation to testing between the two vaccine providers. I couldn't find the relevant information on the Moderna vaccine; perhaps it's still being prepped for release by the MHRA (Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency) as it was the last of the three vaccines currently approved within the UK to gain approval, apparently. Below are links to information about each vaccine as they appear on the MHRA website:
Pfizer/BioNTech
AstraZeneca
I'm not required to be vaccinated; although it's probably fair to say that as a social care worker, I'm probably expected - by both my employer and the people with whom I work - to be vaccinated. But now that I know animals have been harmed in the making of the vaccine, as it were, I honestly don't think I can go through with it. It would be like drinking milk again: swallowing the sweet taste of life at the expense of inhumane suffering and death. I think I'll need to let my employer know how I feel about it and that I'll be giving it a miss.
jtrade
pfm Member
I think it’s great that you are trying to make an informed decision on this issue, based on your abhorrence for animal testing (which I share). Did you read the view expressed by The Vegan Society ?
https://www.vegansociety.com/news/news/vegan-society-response-covid-19-vaccine
I would suggest not rushing to a decision, but try to remain open to a response that fits your personal health as well as compassionate needs.
For myself - and for the time being at least - I am following my intuitive “No” to these vaccines (even though I’ll be 69 next month, I’m not in a high-risk group other than age.... & before someone says “What about infecting others?”, it seems you can still do so once vaccinated...).
mandryka
pfm Member
I’m glad you brought up this question. I certainly hope that any animal suffering was minimised.
We’re talking about the suffering and death of a small number of animals in order to save the lives of a very large number of people. The choice, as far as I understand it, was either many many people die, or a very few animals die, with no third alternative.
From my point of view, that makes the decision to experiment on animals prima facie morally justified.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
I saw that page last night when I was learning about the vaccines. I'll probably let my employer know I'm not ready to be vaccinated just now on ethical grounds and it may well be that that remains my final position. A soft no rather than a hard no, as it were. I'm sure my employer will be fine about it.
That said, there may well be unintended consequences of not getting vaccinated - the big one being I could catch Covid-19 if I haven't already and die. In terms of work, I might end up being moved to another team. I don't think I will, but it could happen. Beyond work, if society moves on on the premise that once you've been vaccinated you can resume a 'normal' life - going to concerts, travelling across the country for leisure purposes and spending time with friends and family without restriction, for example - then I might well find myself at a disadvantage if. I mean, if people need to prove they've been vaccinated to shop at IKEA then no more KALLAX units for me unless I shop online. I hope things don't go that way, but there may well be unintended consequences of not getting vaccinated.
I'm 47 just now and I cycle quite regularly so my body is in an okay state as far as health and fitness go. 69 isn't the end of the road by any means though I wish you every health all the same!
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
Fair dos. Although it's worth considering that, while many people did, in fact, die, it might well be that far fewer would have died had vaccine manufacturers tested on humans only as soon as their vaccines had proved themselves effective in a petri dish. We're talking about the suffering and death of a small number of humans in order to save the lives of a very large number of people. For such a prima facie morally justified cause, would you have had any objections if you were one of the chosen few humans selected to suffer and die for a greater good... a third alternative greater good, so to speak? Either way, for the animals that did suffer and die, it would hardly have been condoling to them to know they suffered and died so that vulnerable members of another species might live longer.
I don't mean to be trite or objectionable: I'm simply not sure there wasn't another alternative. If there truly wasn't then fair dos. Like you, I can only come to a conclusion and make a decision based on the information available.
mandryka
pfm Member
If the deaths could have been avoided then that changes the situation, I agree.
If I were one of the people chosen to be sacrificed, I would not want to be, but I would see that it was morally right. I’m not sure that the species point is relevant, any more than race or gender.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
I referenced species because apparently, 'we' think it's okay to cause suffering and death to other species for the good of our own, with the corollary being that other species, therefore, ought to have no obligation to care about the welfare of our own, human species. The best thought experiment to illustrate this is if aliens came to our planet and did to a number of humans what we did to a number of animals in the name of the greater good of their 'superior' alien species.
It's a moot point, I suppose, as the vaccines have been manufactured in the way they have and it's now up to each of us to decide whether we want to be vaccinated. Suffice to say, I'll respect your choice when the time comes.
Damn, opened this thread again to see if there were any new thoughts on cooking vegie food, and instead I see all these thought-provoking posts on vaccines and animal testing.
I'm with you, windhoek. I'll delay mine or avoid if I can, but it is a big if as returning to Oz may, in the near future, mean vaccination is inevitable.
I'm with you, windhoek. I'll delay mine or avoid if I can, but it is a big if as returning to Oz may, in the near future, mean vaccination is inevitable.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
It's something I never thought at all about until I saw that BBC article. If I hadn't come across it last night I would have gone ahead with the vaccine on Saturday. But once you know something...
Good luck with your own situation - especially if you go to Oz - and I wish you the best of health. Crazy times!
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
I just cancelled my vaccination appointment after telling my line manager about my preference not to be vaccinated on ethical grounds and her saying she completely understands. She added that she hopes an ethical vaccine (one that doesn't involve suffering and death to animals) turns up in the near future... but I think we all know it's going to be a long time before that happens, if ever - probably long after I'm dead, I suspect!
I honestly have sympathy with your position regarding animal testing, but to be clear, every drug approved by the MHRA will have been tested in animals because it is a legal requirement. For sure the minimum number of animals will have been used and every care to prevent suffering will be in place (if you want to be cynical, not least because the studies cost a fortune). There is no chance of a vaccine that has not been through animal testing.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
I'm not surprised that's the case - it certainly matches with the information I read online last night. As for me, I guess it's up to carry on regardless and if I'm doomed, I guess I'm doomed