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Ukraine V

notaclue said:
You have proved my point by inventing a more complex scenario. As I said, it's more comparable to something like Northern Ireland.

It's not about whether it's acceptable. It's about dealing with the complex reality whether we like it or not. Wikipedia shows 'Russians' as the largest group in Crimea for a hundred years. From a time when it was part of the same country as Russia (the Soviet Union).

If recognising Crimea as part of Russia would end the war and get the Russians to withdraw from the rest of Ukraine, it would not seem too high a price to pay for me. Especially if the alternative is months or years more bloodshed across Ukraine as a whole.

Crimea is only about 5% of Ukraine so there's still plenty left.

Perhaps it can even return to Ukraine peacefully some time in the future when Putin is gone.
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No, you're absolutely right. So let's give Switzerland to Austria, France and Italy. Or, and maybe you'd like this idea better, we could partition the US and divide it up between the myriad mother nations whose peoples inhabit it. There's also a fair chunk of eastern Russia that would need to be reallocated, too.
 
notaclue said:
You have proved my point by inventing a more complex scenario. As I said, it's more comparable to something like Northern Ireland.

It's not about whether it's acceptable. It's about dealing with the complex reality whether we like it or not. Wikipedia shows 'Russians' as the largest group in Crimea for a hundred years. From a time when it was part of the same country as Russia (the Soviet Union).

If recognising Crimea as part of Russia would end the war and get the Russians to withdraw from the rest of Ukraine, it would not seem too high a price to pay for me. Especially if the alternative is months or years more bloodshed across Ukraine as a whole.

Crimea is only about 5% of Ukraine so there's still plenty left.

Perhaps it can even return to Ukraine peacefully some time in the future when Putin is gone.
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did you read that article linked by sideshowbob in post 4245 about many on the left wanting to treat ukraine like a pawn on a chessboard? I guess not.
 
gustav_errata said:
That statement completely ignores the strategic importance of Crimea. It's not just some percentage of land. It represents a whole lot more than that.
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It's known as "The Pearl of the Black Sea." Having been there as a child I can confirm that it's legit beautiful.

Also was very important as USSR's only big warm water port with great access to the maritime routes. And Russia had a long-term, favorable lease for the Sevastopol RF Navy base with Ukraine - seemingly no real reason to start a giant war that would risk it all.

This is actually the second stupid Crimean War started by a Russian emperor - the first one ended badly for them in the 19th century. But it did create notable poetry.
 
Just in case we forget what this war is about and why ukraine is not a piece on a chess board to be sacrificed.

The middle school, where my dad used to work, is now a shooting range and a torture facility. They shoot people in our gymnasiums and torture them in our classrooms, they live in our homes and eat food from our cellars, they sleep in our beds and loot our properties. Why? Because Ukrainians dared to remember who we are, dared to find our identity.
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/18/ukraine-russia-border-war-citizens-identities
 
Spraggons Den said:
You make it sound like Russia was the USSR and if so is that what the invasion of Ukraine is really about - to return to the golden age.
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kensalriser said:
He thinks Russia was the USSR in the same way Serbia was Yugoslavia, and he's still outraged Serbia no longer controls Yugoslavia, so the empathy with Russia is logical.
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I'm not neither making anything to sound like something or fantasizing whatever you damn stupidly believe... just get educated about the concept of succession of federations.

Maybe US government can help you

"With the dissolution of the USSR in 1991, the United States considered the Russian Federation as the successor state of the USSR"

https://history.state.gov/countries/soviet-union
 
kensalriser said:
He thinks Russia was the USSR in the same way Serbia was Yugoslavia, and he's still outraged Serbia no longer controls Yugoslavia, so the empathy with Russia is logical.
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To find out that Serbian control of Yugoslavia was over in 1941 may leave strong consequences on your mental health so I will restrain from providing you evidence ...
 
anubisgrau said:
I'm not neither making anything to sound like something or fantasizing whatever you damn stupidly believe... just get educated about the concept of succession of federations.

Maybe US government can help you

"With the dissolution of the USSR in 1991, the United States considered the Russian Federation as the successor state of the USSR"

https://history.state.gov/countries/soviet-union
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TBH, I thought the attack on you was a bit below the belt but I'm a bit shocked you're bringing up US foreign policy in your reply.

"The republics of Serbia and Montenegro declared a new Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) in April 1992. On May 21, 1992, the U.S. announced that it would not recognize the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) as the successor state of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRY), as Serbia and Montenegro claimed"

https://history.state.gov/countries/serbia

I'm curious if you think Serbia, being the largest and most populous country in Yugoslavia is the successor state or is the successor state only legit if the US says so?

anubisgrau said:
in reality, the weapons always belong to a country considered to be a successor of the union falling apart.
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Considered by who?

I don't know the answers so hope you can enlighten me
 
Peter Dyer said:
TBH, I thought the attack on you was a bit below the belt but I'm a bit shocked you're bringing up US foreign policy in your reply.

"The republics of Serbia and Montenegro declared a new Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) in April 1992. On May 21, 1992, the U.S. announced that it would not recognize the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) as the successor state of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRY), as Serbia and Montenegro claimed"

https://history.state.gov/countries/serbia

I'm curious if you think Serbia, being the largest and most populous country in Yugoslavia is the successor state or is the successor state only legit if the US says so?

Considered by who?

I don't know the answers so hope you can enlighten me
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Sorry, I answered the question related to breakup of USSR. I don't want to answer to any ad hom provocations of the poor souls pissed by my writing and based on fantasies about my nationality.

All the answers are easy to find using any search engine. USSR and Yugoslavia breakups were treated differently so no universal answer: Google is your friend. Sorry but no enlightenment from me.
 
anubisgrau said:
Sorry, I answered the question related to breakup of USSR. I don't want to answer to any ad hom provocations of the poor souls pissed by my writing and based on fantasies about my nationality.

All the answers are easy to find using any search engine. USSR and Yugoslavia breakups were treated differently so no universal answer: Google is your friend. Sorry but no enlightenment from me.
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Sorry broke my first rule of never to assume anything.. Thought you were Serbian from what was written above although don't understand the secrecy but guess its your choice.
I know they are in no way the same but it's hard not to see some similarities between USSR and Yugoslavia and you're the guy who claimed to know about succession.
As always, answers are easy to find but the truth is another thing altogether.
FYI, we're all guilty of making up fantasies and the one you came up with about me a few days ago was a doozy:)
 
You couldn’t make this stuff up. From the Graun:

A Russian warplane has accidentally fired a weapon into the city of Belgorod near Ukraine, causing an explosion and damaging buildings, the Tass news agency cited the Russian defence ministry as saying……“As a Sukhoi Su-34 air force plane was flying over the city of Belgorod there was an accidental discharge of aviation ammunition,” the defence ministry said, according to Tass.”

Admit to being surprised they didn’t blame it on Ukraine as it was near the border.
 
Peter Dyer said:
Sorry broke my first rule of never to assume anything.. Thought you were Serbian from what was written above although don't understand the secrecy but guess its your choice.
I know they are in no way the same but it's hard not to see some similarities between USSR and Yugoslavia and you're the guy who claimed to know about succession.
As always, answers are easy to find but the truth is another thing altogether.
FYI, we're all guilty of making up fantasies and the one you came up with about me a few days ago was a doozy:)
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i apologize if anything i wrote hurt you, there was no intention. i even can't remember what it was.

yes there were technical similarities between two federations but obviously so-called "international community" (USA and other western countries under its dictate) applied double standards to USSR and yugoslavia when it comes to succession. happy to see west hit back in their face for that.

PS. FYI my nationality is not serbian. on the last census this winter i declared as yugoslav. i was born in yugoslavia and i am happy to belong to a small group of people who still believe in the great, supranationalistic idea this country was once based on. it's irrelevant for anything, but given the flood of idiocy about me, just to have clean facts.
 
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