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Ukraine II

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sean99 said:
I see comments on this thread that Putin will not stop at Ukraine, and while I concede that Putin's desires probably extend beyond Ukraine, I suspect that since Ukraine is proving so costly that it has served as a significant reality check for Putin.
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He'd still probably fancy his chances against Moldova, Georgia or Finland. If the Russians have any tanks left...
 
notaclue said:
He'd still probably fancy his chances against Moldova, Georgia or Finland. If the Russians have any tanks left...
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On last reports, the UK alone has sent nigh on 4k anti tank missiles.
Ukraine are currently claiming a 90%+ success rate with these types of weapon.
That is a lot of armour taken down, (it will not all be tanks, but serious quantities of weaponry are falling prey to various 'manpads' from around the world.
Of all things in a war zone, a tank / armoured vehicle is not a place of safety for sure.
So many weapons ranged against them.
 
I'm slghtly bemused by Reuters, BBC and other news service reports this evening.

I may be agnostic, but pray to God something positive and hopeful comes out of these talks, and very soon:

Reuters March 13:

March 13 (Reuters) - Russian and Ukrainian officials gave their most upbeat assessments yet on Sunday of progress in their talks on the war in Ukraine, suggesting there could be positive results within days.

Separately, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman said Russia was showing signs of willingness to engage in substantive negotiations about ending a conflict in which thousands have died. More than 2.5 million people have fled.

Ukraine has said it is willing to negotiate, but not to surrender or accept any ultimatums.

"We will not concede in principle on any positions. Russia now understands this. Russia is already beginning to talk constructively," Ukrainian negotiator and presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said in a video posted online.

"I think that we will achieve some results literally in a matter of days," he said.

RIA news agency quoted a Russian delegate, Leonid Slutsky, as saying the talks had made substantial progress.

"According to my personal expectations, this progress may grow in the coming days into a joint position of both delegations, into documents for signing," Slutsky said.

Neither side indicated what the scope of any agreement might be.

Their public comments were issued almost at the same time. They came on day 18 of the war which began when Russian forces invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24 in what the Kremlin terms a special military operation.

In a tweet, Podolyak said Russia was carefully listening to Ukraine's proposals. "Our demands are - the end of the war and the withdrawal of (Russian) troops. I see the understanding and there is a dialogue," he said.

Last Monday, the Kremlin's chief spokesman said Russia was ready to halt military operations "in a moment" if Kyiv met a list of conditions. read more

Among the demands were for Ukraine to acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy told ABC last week that "we can discuss and find a compromise on how these territories will live on" while adding "we're not ready for capitulation".

Three rounds of talks between the two sides in Belarus, most recently last Monday, had focused mainly on humanitarian issues and led to the limited opening of some corridors for civilians to escape fighting.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday there had been some "positive shifts" in the talks, but did not elaborate. On Saturday the Kremlin said the discussions between Russian and Ukrainian officials had been continuing "in video format".

Talks between the Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers produced no apparent progress towards a ceasefire last Thursday but analysts said the fact they were even meeting left a window open for ending the war. read more
 
MikeMA said:
I'm slghtly bemused by Reuters, BBC and other news service reports this evening.

I may be agnostic, but pray to God something positive and hopeful comes out of these talks, and very soon:

Reuters March 13:

March 13 (Reuters) - Russian and Ukrainian officials gave their most upbeat assessments yet on Sunday of progress in their talks on the war in Ukraine, suggesting there could be positive results within days.

Separately, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Wendy Sherman said Russia was showing signs of willingness to engage in substantive negotiations about ending a conflict in which thousands have died. More than 2.5 million people have fled.

Ukraine has said it is willing to negotiate, but not to surrender or accept any ultimatums.

"We will not concede in principle on any positions. Russia now understands this. Russia is already beginning to talk constructively," Ukrainian negotiator and presidential adviser Mykhailo Podolyak said in a video posted online.

"I think that we will achieve some results literally in a matter of days," he said.

RIA news agency quoted a Russian delegate, Leonid Slutsky, as saying the talks had made substantial progress.

"According to my personal expectations, this progress may grow in the coming days into a joint position of both delegations, into documents for signing," Slutsky said.

Neither side indicated what the scope of any agreement might be.

Their public comments were issued almost at the same time. They came on day 18 of the war which began when Russian forces invaded Ukraine on Feb. 24 in what the Kremlin terms a special military operation.

In a tweet, Podolyak said Russia was carefully listening to Ukraine's proposals. "Our demands are - the end of the war and the withdrawal of (Russian) troops. I see the understanding and there is a dialogue," he said.

Last Monday, the Kremlin's chief spokesman said Russia was ready to halt military operations "in a moment" if Kyiv met a list of conditions. read more

Among the demands were for Ukraine to acknowledge Crimea as Russian territory, and recognise the separatist republics of Donetsk and Lugansk as independent states.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy told ABC last week that "we can discuss and find a compromise on how these territories will live on" while adding "we're not ready for capitulation".

Three rounds of talks between the two sides in Belarus, most recently last Monday, had focused mainly on humanitarian issues and led to the limited opening of some corridors for civilians to escape fighting.

Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday there had been some "positive shifts" in the talks, but did not elaborate. On Saturday the Kremlin said the discussions between Russian and Ukrainian officials had been continuing "in video format".

Talks between the Russian and Ukrainian foreign ministers produced no apparent progress towards a ceasefire last Thursday but analysts said the fact they were even meeting left a window open for ending the war. read more
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Hard to believe anything Putin and his negotiators say, but still wishing very hard for some form of deal to be made.
 
Fingers crossed that a deal can be struck, but either way, it's a tragedy and for sure, the world will never be the same again.
 
Hook said:
Hard to believe anything Putin and his negotiators say, but still wishing very hard for some form of deal to be made.
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Being a cautious pessimist, I think the psychopath will play for time with sham negotiations while he punishes Ukraine by ultimately turning it into Chechnya
 
Besides all the killing and damage, I'd say the Americans and its nato allies are very surprised how poor and ineffective the Russian invasion is.

Yes they are and can increase the random missile firing and IMO could fire off a small nuke, but besides that, they are very poor, signs of North Korea me thinks.

Hopefully his own people can somehow get rid of him and he ends up in the Hague
 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-europe-60717902

21:44
China's aim is to stop war 'getting out of control' - embassy
Asked about media reports that Russia was asking China for military help, a spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Washington says Beijing is focused on keeping the war in Ukraine from "getting out of control".

Reuters quoted embassy spokesperson Liu Pengyu as saying that "the situation in Ukraine is indeed disconcerting".

"The high priority now is to prevent the tense situation escalating or even getting out of control," he said.

Earlier on Sunday, the Financial Times and a number of other media outlets reported that US officials believe Russia has requested Chinese military supplies to help with the war effort, as well as economic support.

When asked about the reports, the spokesperson said that he "never heard of that".

US officials have warned that China would face consequences if it takes steps to help Russia evade sanctions.

China has so far publicly remained neutral in the conflict and refused to condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
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Sounds like China is playing the long-game. Exercise soft power, rebuild international rep as peacemakers and all-round good guys.
 
TheDecameron said:
Being a cautious pessimist, I think the psychopath will play for time with sham negotiations while he punishes Ukraine by ultimately turning it into Chechnya
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Hate to agree, but I do. Only difference from Chechnya is that now Russians are slaughtering fellow Slavs. Hope that puts more pressure on Putin to end it, but I’m not optimistic.
 
Robert M said:
Besides all the killing and damage, I'd say the Americans and its nato allies are very surprised how poor and ineffective the Russian invasion is.

Yes they are and can increase the random missile firing and IMO could fire off a small nuke, but besides that, they are very poor, signs of North Korea me thinks.

Hopefully his own people can somehow get rid of him and he ends up in the Hague
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I agree with this. I imagine some of the NATO people are making careful notes. However I have yet to find an analyst who has offered an accepted explanation as to why the Russians have held back 85% of their air force. A policy of leaving ground forces apparently with inadequate cover seems to be widely viewed as a big no-no which hasn't (I think( been publicly explained.

One analyst I read said he thought the apparent failure of Russia to effectively reach its military objectives adds to a sense that Superpowers can't prosecute a successful venture in another continent (or even in their own). Afghanistan (twice), Iraq, Vietnam were cited. This will increase the confidence of medium sized states (Taiwan and Serbia among them) not necessarily to invade but to be more forthright in their external facing affairs.
 
[email protected] said:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-film-maker-killed-by-russian-forces-ukraine
> 'We crossed the checkpoint and they started shooting at us'

Whose checkpoint and who started shooting? You don't need to question.
It's easy to blame Russians for all mortal sins.
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And just as easy to assume the Russians are innocent and always wrongly accused.

Getting at the truth of what goes on in a war zone is always an uncertain undertaking. Judgements must be made that are helped by knowing the source of information. Then we can consider the overall record and apparent motivations of the source.
 
Hook said:
Hard to believe anything Putin and his negotiators say, but still wishing very hard for some form of deal to be made.
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Easy for me to say because I am not fighting or dying in the cold in Ukraine, but in my view there can be NO deal, when the choice is between domination by an authoritarian dictatorship, and the survival of Democracy.
 
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