Tory Leadership Runners and Riders

[Le Baron]

I’m intrigued by the idea of someone sounding off for an hour to his workmates. Most people I’ve worked with would be drumming their fingers on the table and making excuses to leave after ten minutes or so. The only exception was women talking about weddings (either their own, or ones they’d attended). An hour would just be warm-up time.

Did anyone say 'sounding off'? Or was it just you betraying a prejudice? We sat eating lunch, they asked me some questions. That people you've worked with would be 'drumming their fingers on the table and making excuses to leave after ten minutes or so' probably says a bit more about your compelling mastery of explanation. Probably.

 

[PsB]

His plan with the 'golden rule' was prepare Britain for entry. That was the aim. Back in the day newspaper articles would come from his pen explaining how Britain could be in a position to 'meet the criteria'. This was the view of a man completely unaware of the difference between monetary sovereignty and monetary constraint. In this he was far below Thatcher, who originally thought money was the same for all countries, but by about 1985-1987 had come to realise that it isn't.

I always thought the Golden Rule was a rather clever way to explain why euro membership was just around the corner, but just not yet, not right now. A bit like viable nuclear fusion.

 

[PsB]

As I recall it was a Tory who negotiated the opt out and Blair who tried to negotiate to opt in

And who was it who kept Blair in check? That's right, one G. Brown. I think you underestimate him.

 

[ks.234]

I’m intrigued by the idea of someone sounding off for an hour to his workmates. Most people I’ve worked with would be drumming their fingers on the table and making excuses to leave after ten minutes or so. The only exception was women talking about weddings (either their own, or ones they’d attended). An hour would just be warm-up time.

“Sounding off” is the sort of phrase used by people who make excuses to leave a discussion because they can’t engage with it. The drumming of fingers is another tactic used for the same reason. It’s quite rude.

 

[Le Baron]

And who was it who kept Blair in check?

No-one. He's still at it.

 

[Joe Hutch]

It was the way you phrased it: ‘I spent an hour explaining to people’; sounds like sounding off. Plus of course at least one person had completely failed to grasp your point despite listening for an hour.

As for my own powers of explanation, they are non-existent, which didn’t matter much at work, because there were usually plenty of other people talking, and I’m a good listener.

 

[Joe Hutch]

“Sounding off” is the sort of phrase used by people who make excuses to leave a discussion because they can’t engage with it. The drumming of fingers is another tactic used for the same reason. It’s quite rude.

I’m from Birkenhead. We speak as we find.

 

[PsB]

No-one. He's still at it.

He's no longer in power, so he represents only himself and his views are moot. Brown thwarted Blair over the euro, making clever use of the Golden Rule. Or you can view it another way, and say that Brown gave Blair cover by providing a long list of reasons why Britain was "not quite ready" for the euro. Either way, the result is the same.

 

[ks.234]

I’m from Birkenhead. We speak as we find.

Still rude and disrespectful, and more to the point of the AUP, an attack on the poster and not the post

 

[Joe Hutch]

Well that’s me told.

 

[Le Baron]

I’m from Birkenhead. We speak as we find.

The Dutch suffer from this too. A blend of tactless and mouth moving before brain is in gear. They call it 'Dutch directness', The rest of Europe calls it 'rude'. Even the French! Which is not a good look.

 

[ks.234]

It was the way you phrased it: ‘I spent an hour explaining to people’; sounds like sounding off. Plus of course at least one person had completely failed to grasp your point despite listening for an hour.

As for my own powers of explanation, they are non-existent, which didn’t matter much at work, because there were usually plenty of other people talking, and I’m a good listener.

Even I understand Le Baron, and I’m not very bright. What’s your excuse?

 

[paulfromcamden]

I’m intrigued by the idea of someone sounding off for an hour to his workmates.

Sitting round chatting for an hour? No wonder the economy has taken a dive.

NO SLACKING!

 

[Le Baron]

He's no longer in power, so he represents only himself and his views are moot. Brown thwarted Blair over the euro, making clever use of the Golden Rule. Or you can view it another way, and say that Brown gave Blair cover by providing a long list of reasons why Britain was "not quite ready" for the euro. Either way, the result is the same.

That's one analysis. Worth considering.

 

[Joe Hutch]

I didn’t and haven’t said I don’t understand him. I was referring to his workmate, who had listened for an hour, had seemingly grasped the key points, yet immediately made it clear that none of it, however well-explained, had sunk in.

 

[Le Baron]

Sitting round chatting for an hour? No wonder the economy has taken a dive.

NO SLACKING!

I only go 2-3 times a week into the city, so most of the work is done at home. In the lunch hour we can do as we like.

 

[TheDecameron]

We speak as we find.

Thats one of my favourites- it could be used to cover just about anything. There’s a parody social media account ( must try and find it again) where the guy puts up pretty awful heavily household items and grotesque stuff with £5 or free to uplift etc and ends with ‘just want rid’.

 

[ks.234]

And who was it who kept Blair in check? That's right, one G. Brown. I think you underestimate him.

On that specific case maybe, but his economic policy took Tory ideology to a conclusion that gave us 2008. What’s more the trend that continues in the current Labour to take Tory ideology at face value can only lead to the next recession.

 

[Le Baron]

I didn’t and haven’t said I don’t understand him. I was referring to his workmate, who had listened for an hour, had seemingly grasped the key points, yet immediately made it clear that none of it, however well-explained, had sunk in.

It had sunk in. This is precisely what I was relating. That despite accepting the first principle there is still a disconnect elsewhere.

It should be expected though. There is a tendency when discussing things for the explainer to assume that the person listening just hears the explanation and sees the point. This is not how knowledge works. Often you have to let it stew or if it's theory-to-practise you have to experience it. My father, a tailor, said you can look at the draughts as long as you want, but it won't tell you how to make a coat. You have to fail and then get increasingly better making about 50 before you get the knack.

 

[PsB]

On that specific case maybe, but his economic policy took Tory ideology to a conclusion that gave us 2008. What’s more the trend that continues in the current Labour to take Tory ideology at face value can only lead to the next recession.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he was great. Just less rubbish than Cameron and Johnson (a low bar, I admit).