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The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio

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Joe P said:
Serge,


Top marks for being honest and consistent, but given how easy it is for manufacturers to mislead with specs, not to mention the general dearth of meaningful specs in the first place, how can you be sure that the specs aren't leading you to the wrong conclusions?

Joe
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Whilst that could happen, so far it hasn't. I'm also in the habit of making my own measurements, and if a product didn't meet it's spec, I'd take it back. Again, that hasn't happened yet, everything I've bought, from Quad 34/FM4, Nakamichi, through Meridian kit to more recently a fair amount of Behringer kit, they all did what I expected of them.

About the only disappointment was a number of inexpensive A-D / D-A converters which I found didn't meet their specs for distortion. They all distorted badly on the analogue inputs which meant one couldn't get to 0dBFS cleanly.

S.
 
Joe P said:
If you want to lay blame somewhere, I'd argue Bose is at fault. It's overpriced, underperforming kit, yet the average punter seems to think Bose is the pinnacle of hi-fi
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One thing about Bose kit and marketing is that it's completely foo-free so, to the average punter, it does what audio kit is supposed to.

The first thing that audiophilia needs to mend its image is to rid itself of the joke about £100 cables (or even £20 cables come to that).
 
Tone

I consider myself to have been incredibly cruelly treated by you, when you let the most frightful BS merchants drone on for months without fear of reprimand. It's very unfair, but I forgive you because you're a likeable old luddite.

Earlier I said that apart from Peter Axcel fairly representing the engineering community's stance on the hi fi fraternity (most of the pro audio side too), that I thought the subjective BS side of audio had done immense damage and that it had probably contributed to its demise.

What I didn't say and should have done is that it has also held back development in audio for a good thirty years and left AV miles ahead. Without proper comparison and the "just different presentations" argument, there has been no proper way to establish what's best and, as a result, all sorts of old crap carries on years after its sell by date.

However, I'm also posting part of a testimonial from a customer to show what I mean about how I think most people feel about the hi fi industry.

I'd started thinking about upgrading my existing hi-fi a few months ago,
but in the process of trying to look into options I'd become thoroughly
frustrated by the staggering amount of pseudo-science rubbish in the
hi-fi 'community'.

At the point I'd almost given up on doing any real research other than
going to listen to whatever the local hi-fi shop had available, I heard
the ADM9Ts mentioned on one of the popular hi-fi forums. I did a bit of
googling, and what first stood out was the lack of 'audiophile'
nonsense, both on the AVI website and also in your discussion of the
product in forum posts.

I'd become very sceptical of testimonials found on the internet (given
the number of testimonials for audiophile 'placebos'), but what struck
me about the (numerous!) AVI advocates were that they tended to be from
the same people who dismissed all of the audiophile rubbish.

I've left out the compliments he paid to the product for fear of recrimination. ;)
 
Ashley James said:
I consider myself to have been incredibly cruelly treated by you, when you let the most frightful BS merchants drone on for months without fear of reprimand. It's very unfair, but I forgive you because you're a likeable old luddite.
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I don't censor to any hymn-sheet and this frequently annoys folk who want a 'one-ideology fits all' forum. Yes, of course HDDA is more 'on message' for AVI than pfm, just as Naim's is for Naim, the Mana one was for their stands etc etc. I try not to allow my viewpoint on audio (which is pretty fuzzy anyway) impact the way I moderate pfm and I actively encourage all views here - the wider and more disparate the better IMO. There is space for all. I think we have a pretty good balance at present between the objectivist and subjectivist, the vintage and the modern, digital and analogue, active and passive etc etc. It is simply not my job to impose a viewpoint or ideology at all, so folk are most welcome to challenge you, just as you are welcome to respond. All I ask is that folk do so in a relatively polite and respectful manner!

PS I sincerely hope you don't think me rude or cruel, there is certainly no intent in that direction anyway.
 
Plutox,

One thing about Bose kit and marketing is that it's completely foo-free so, to the average punter, it does what audio kit is supposed to.
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Bose ads are devoid of the nano-quantum-isolinear-mono-crystal type of meaningless audio foo, but it's a bit of a stretch to say their ads are completely foo-free.

Bose_ad.png


But at least you can return the radio directly to "the most respected name in sound" for a full refund if it sucks and/or blows.

Joe
 
Joe, can you point to any advert that is 100% foo-free?

It is the very nature of advertising to distort facts in a manner that enhances the product being advertised.

I mean why would any company pay another company to highlight flaws in its products?
 
If you go along with the article then you will find yourself fretting less over the gear and just enjoying the music more.

It's kinda what I did. Never regretted it.
 
Ash,

I've mentioned this before but I think you don't get what pink fish media is about. It's a Buffy, Star Trek and Big Lebowski forum with a bit of audio and music thrown in. It's very big, it's very diverse and it's very active -- a thousand posts a day from real people level of activity.

HDDA is a very different kind of forum, not least of which because it's devoid of Buffy, Star Trek and Big Lebowski discussion. Darren set it up as an objective forum with an interest in active speakers and computer audio. But it basically is a tight-knit community to discuss all things AVI ADM9.1-y, with the occasional foray into taking the piss out of other manufacturer's products.

That's fine, of course, but it ain't the same thing.

Joe
 
This post by AndrewR was rather good, I thought.

Loudspeaker measurement is too complicated for a simplistic approach to be valid. You need a decent anechoic space of which there are very few in the UK (I'm firmly of the belief that the various software approaches that claim not to require an anechoic space are flawed for one reason or another). You need rather sophisticated (i.e. expensive) kit, typically specialist training to use it and even more specialist knowledge to interpret the results. All in all, an experienced listener is often a better bet.

Of course, the real problem with the subjective approach is that people like what they like. Nothing wrong with that so far.

The difficulties arise when those same individuals who completely eschew the scientific method start pronouncing to others about un-provables, invariably with the untold back-story that they are the golden-eared righteous and therefore trustworthy unlike the numpty scientists (who researched it) and the engineers (who made it work).

The first thing that a highly subjectivist audiophile needs to acknowledge is that the human auditory system is fickle, easily fooled and changes from moment to moment with our passing emotional states. Even his.
 
I've mentioned this before but I think you don't get what pink fish media is about. It's a Buffy, Star Trek and Big Lebowski forum with a bit of audio and music thrown in.
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And just a hint of...


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

prolly not worksafe...
 
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Plutox

I wrote this some time ago to explain how we listen to hi Fi and therefore what was important in its design.

http://avihifi.blogspot.com/2010/04/how-we-hear-stuff.html

Measuring the amplitude response of speakers is difficult and requires a lot of skill. When I was at ATC I worked with Ray Ellaby who'd designed the mid range driver for the original 801 and done a PHD on speaker measurement. Martin is vastly more able and he finds all sorts of things that most wouldn't notice let alone understand, so I don't have much faith in most of the measurements and ideas I see on the net. TBH we think sites like Zaph Audio are missing huge amounts of information by applying too much smoothing. Drivers are far worse than they look on that site.

Ash
 
sergeauckland said:
What is completely beyond me is buying a $5000 mechanical watch that keeps worse time than a $15 Casio. That is then totally jewelry and the tool element doesn't figure much.
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Me neither. There's nothing in that price segment (new) worth wearing.

sergeauckland said:
For the record, I wear a Junghans radio watch. It may be childish, but I like to make sure the BBC's time pips are accurate!
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How outstandingly tedious that must be. You might as well use a mobile phone to tell the time, and have no watch at all.
 
How outstandingly tedious that must be. You might as well use a mobile phone to tell the time, and have no watch at all.
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Works for me, much better than all of that 'ooh, look at me' bling...
 
Basil said:
Works for me, much better than all of that 'ooh, look at me' bling...
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1) What's wrong with a little bit of bling? We all like to dress up now and again.
2) A really good watch ideally should whisper to the few knowledgable people, and not shout at the ignorant masses. They fly under the radar.
 
Plutox said:
<snipped for brevity>
While a return to proper comparative tests would not suit many areas of the domestic audio sector as it now exists, it would result in a return to a fundamental honesty that would stop "audiophile" from being one step below "train-spotter" in the social hierarchy.
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Plutox

I am neither objectivist nor subjectivist and I can tell you nailed on the "train-spotter" bunch is your bunch, mate. I've read nothing so mental in these threads than that I should buy without listening first. I ran this gambling concept past a mate of mine who has little interest in hifi and even he reckoned it's a crazy idea. When he bought his "ghetto blaster" (or whatever they call those things sold in Comet) from Comet he wanted to hear some before he parted with his money. No way was he going to buy without hearing some of them first, even in a place like Comet. Specifications? He doesn't give a damn and that's the reality from the majority apart from "how many watts has it got."

Plutox said:
One thing about Bose kit and marketing is that it's completely foo-free so, to the average punter, it does what audio kit is supposed to.

The first thing that audiophilia needs to mend its image is to rid itself of the joke about £100 cables (or even £20 cables come to that).
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Are you in the UK? If so I suggest you get yourself down to Comet pronto and have a look at their cables. Then you'll realise just how far off the mark you are with your comment above.

By the way, you're wrong about Bose. Joe is right.
 
Blzebub said:
1) What's wrong with a little bit of bling? We all like to dress up now and again.
2) A really good watch ideally should whisper to the few knowledgable people, and not shout at the ignorant masses. They fly under the radar.
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So it's a smug, 'me too' club?

I could ask why you need the expense of a fancy watch to feel superior to 'the ignorant masses', without whom you'd be out of work...

But I won't...
 
Just a quick note to remind everyone that no subjectivist here or elsewhere has ever stated they believe certain equipment has magical abilities over other gear. What we have suggested is the best sounding equipment may reproduce portions of the signal that other gear loses or distorts regardless of hobbyist null tests, etc.

DIYers may think they have a handle on the intricacies of circuit R&D and performance when evaluated with a one-off piece but I suspect manufacturing hundreds or thousands of these items uncovers circuit interactions and distortions a DIYer won't ever know about.

I personally believe many of the distortions rejected as nonsense by the hobbyists are probably fully understood by the engineers that design and manufacture products which are immune but they're not giving up their knowledge since it gives them the competitive edge.
 
Joe

Re: what is pfm about - you left out a few gentleman's playthings, like watches.
Obviously, but just sayin' man!

John
 
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