TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
I assumed he upgraded from a valhalla to the Mose- thats the comparison Im curious about....
The MOSE/Hercules power supply for Linn LP12
- Thread starter kcc123
- Start date
returntohifi
Active Member
To TheDecameron,
First, apologizes for such a long post. Being succinct is not my strong suit and I am not as capable with others that can provide recordings of their efforts.
A week ago, I received my Hercules/Mose power supply which is now installed on my LP12. This is a non-LP12 version with the small power board and an external power switch. The power switch and power board are connected via a telephone cable. You can see a version of this over in the Linn forum at Vinyl Engine. Although it is not the LP12 version it works perfectly with the Linn and with the added benefit that I can retain both power supplies on-board for comparison purposes. The small power board is attached to the corner brace by the motor and it is a relatively quick to switch the motor leads between the Herc/Mose and Valhalla.
I used the following for the comparison:
Neil Young Live at Massey Hall
Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Rain Coat
Dire Straits Love over Gold
Phil Collins Face Value
Phoebe Snow Phoebe Snow
1986 LP12 pre circkus, Syrinx PU-3, Benz ACE L
Pre: NAC72 (w NJ321/729 boards)/ HiCap
Amp/Speakers: NAP250/Spendor SP1 or Marantz Five Mono Tube/ ProAc Tablettes.
I have spent a couple of days going back and forth between the two and these are my impressions.
Neil Young Live at Massy Hall.
This is an intimate performance with Neil Young talking to his audience and playing his guitar as he talks about his songs. With the Hercules MOSE, you can hear the pluck and hit on the strings and the notes are more distinct. It sounds much more live and you can picture Neil Young playing the guitar while he talks to his audience. With the Valhalla, the sound is smoother and with a bit more warmth but there is less distinction between notes. With the Valhalla, the guitar work during his conversation with the audience appears detached as if it is being played by someone else. The Herc/MOSE is much more realistic and closer to a live venue.
Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat
The Herc/MOSE gives a clearer presentation with a more solid image with her voice being more forward in the soundstage. Again, the notes start and stop more precisely but still naturally. The bass is more powerful and focussed giving a real solidity to the image. However, the Valhalla presentation is smoother with more warmth; there is a pervasive mid-bass presence that on some songs (ie Joan of Arc|) that makes her voice more seductive. However, this mid-bass presence reduces the clarity in other songs as in Well Take Manhattan. I also must point out that I did not miss the extra warmth of the Valhalla when the Herc is played through the Marantz tube amps and ProAc Tablettes.
Dire Straits Love Over Gold
The Herc/Mose gives a more incisive performance with more clarity and bass power. The bass notes are better separated and the treble is clearer also. The Valhalla provides a continued mid-bass presence that makes the song more boomy
Phil Collins Face Value
Much of the same, there is more distinctiveness between the drums and bass and more power with the Herc. The Valhalla provides more warmth to Phil Collins voice by a small degree.
Phoebe Snow- Phoebe Snow.
Again the Herc provides more clarity and incisiveness and Phoebe Snows voice is more open. The extra warmth of the Valhalla on the bass guitar gets in the way this time.
I am quite taken with the extra detail, drive and realism that the Hercules/MOSE provides and prefer it to the Valhalla. When I refer to the Valhallas warmth, I am in no way implying that the MOSE sounds cold, On the contrary, I think the MOSE sounds more neutral than the Valhalla but I can also understand where the extra warmth and smoothness of the Valhalla may be preferred by some and on certain systems. I will play with the VTA after I have built up some familiarity with the Herc/Mose yo optimize the sound further.
Well its finally over and I hope that this is helpful and please keep it in context of my equipment and my personal opinions.
Regards,
Alex.
First, apologizes for such a long post. Being succinct is not my strong suit and I am not as capable with others that can provide recordings of their efforts.
A week ago, I received my Hercules/Mose power supply which is now installed on my LP12. This is a non-LP12 version with the small power board and an external power switch. The power switch and power board are connected via a telephone cable. You can see a version of this over in the Linn forum at Vinyl Engine. Although it is not the LP12 version it works perfectly with the Linn and with the added benefit that I can retain both power supplies on-board for comparison purposes. The small power board is attached to the corner brace by the motor and it is a relatively quick to switch the motor leads between the Herc/Mose and Valhalla.
I used the following for the comparison:
Neil Young Live at Massey Hall
Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Rain Coat
Dire Straits Love over Gold
Phil Collins Face Value
Phoebe Snow Phoebe Snow
1986 LP12 pre circkus, Syrinx PU-3, Benz ACE L
Pre: NAC72 (w NJ321/729 boards)/ HiCap
Amp/Speakers: NAP250/Spendor SP1 or Marantz Five Mono Tube/ ProAc Tablettes.
I have spent a couple of days going back and forth between the two and these are my impressions.
Neil Young Live at Massy Hall.
This is an intimate performance with Neil Young talking to his audience and playing his guitar as he talks about his songs. With the Hercules MOSE, you can hear the pluck and hit on the strings and the notes are more distinct. It sounds much more live and you can picture Neil Young playing the guitar while he talks to his audience. With the Valhalla, the sound is smoother and with a bit more warmth but there is less distinction between notes. With the Valhalla, the guitar work during his conversation with the audience appears detached as if it is being played by someone else. The Herc/MOSE is much more realistic and closer to a live venue.
Jennifer Warnes Famous Blue Raincoat
The Herc/MOSE gives a clearer presentation with a more solid image with her voice being more forward in the soundstage. Again, the notes start and stop more precisely but still naturally. The bass is more powerful and focussed giving a real solidity to the image. However, the Valhalla presentation is smoother with more warmth; there is a pervasive mid-bass presence that on some songs (ie Joan of Arc|) that makes her voice more seductive. However, this mid-bass presence reduces the clarity in other songs as in Well Take Manhattan. I also must point out that I did not miss the extra warmth of the Valhalla when the Herc is played through the Marantz tube amps and ProAc Tablettes.
Dire Straits Love Over Gold
The Herc/Mose gives a more incisive performance with more clarity and bass power. The bass notes are better separated and the treble is clearer also. The Valhalla provides a continued mid-bass presence that makes the song more boomy
Phil Collins Face Value
Much of the same, there is more distinctiveness between the drums and bass and more power with the Herc. The Valhalla provides more warmth to Phil Collins voice by a small degree.
Phoebe Snow- Phoebe Snow.
Again the Herc provides more clarity and incisiveness and Phoebe Snows voice is more open. The extra warmth of the Valhalla on the bass guitar gets in the way this time.
I am quite taken with the extra detail, drive and realism that the Hercules/MOSE provides and prefer it to the Valhalla. When I refer to the Valhallas warmth, I am in no way implying that the MOSE sounds cold, On the contrary, I think the MOSE sounds more neutral than the Valhalla but I can also understand where the extra warmth and smoothness of the Valhalla may be preferred by some and on certain systems. I will play with the VTA after I have built up some familiarity with the Herc/Mose yo optimize the sound further.
Well its finally over and I hope that this is helpful and please keep it in context of my equipment and my personal opinions.
Regards,
Alex.
I think the Thorens motors have half the poles of the airpax /premotec motors. Thus they spin faster then LP12 motors and probably create more vibes. Replacing with a slower lp12 motor with the bigger machined ally pulley makes sense to me....
rkay5
Active Member
croak,
You are right the thorens motor is 16pole so 50Hz it runs 375 rpm@33 1/3 But the motor is quiet with wall power but with the Mose/Hercules super quiet. Going a to 24pole would be hard what size pulley? If you get a Linn motor the pulley is 21mm for 50Hz I think but the thorens sub platter is not the same size as the Linn so speed wouldn't be right.
And how for cost a Linn 50Hz motor $180 plus making a pulley it's to much my Thorens TD150/Sole Sub-Chassis/Mose+Hercules/AudioQuest PT7 and Linn springs Bolts rubber and so on, I very happy with all the mods and now I can stop modify.
You are right the thorens motor is 16pole so 50Hz it runs 375 rpm@33 1/3 But the motor is quiet with wall power but with the Mose/Hercules super quiet. Going a to 24pole would be hard what size pulley? If you get a Linn motor the pulley is 21mm for 50Hz I think but the thorens sub platter is not the same size as the Linn so speed wouldn't be right.
And how for cost a Linn 50Hz motor $180 plus making a pulley it's to much my Thorens TD150/Sole Sub-Chassis/Mose+Hercules/AudioQuest PT7 and Linn springs Bolts rubber and so on, I very happy with all the mods and now I can stop modify.
croak,
You are right the thorens motor is 16pole so 50Hz it runs 375 rpm@33 1/3 But the motor is quiet with wall power but with the Mose/Hercules super quiet. Going a to 24pole would be hard what size pulley? If you get a Linn motor the pulley is 21mm for 50Hz I think but the thorens sub platter is not the same size as the Linn so speed wouldn't be right.
And how for cost a Linn 50Hz motor $180 plus making a pulley it's to much my Thorens TD150/Sole Sub-Chassis/Mose+Hercules/AudioQuest PT7 and Linn springs Bolts rubber and so on, I very happy with all the mods and now I can stop modify.
A friend put a Valhalla and linn motor in a 160 I think. Platters are very close it seems. plenty folks have upgraded to dc so used motor may not be so hard/expensive to get....
vinylkid58
pfm Member
I've been using a Herc. for a few months now. There's no doubt in my mind that it's superior to the Valhalla. Sustained piano notes are much better, along with instruments and vocals having better separation. Plus, you get 45 RPM too!
My Valhalla was mounted in an external box, which made for an easy swap to the Hercules board. I believe it's important to keep the PS board away from the motor.
jeff
martin dawson
pfm Member
Had my Linn LP 12 since 1978 and the only thing left of the original is the outer platter! Right had the Valhalla fitted when it came out in early 80's and then bought a lingo mk1 when they came out in early 90's. Had that for some 15 years and sold it on flea bay for nearly what i paid for it. Valhalla to lingo was an improvement. Then some 5 years ago i bought an Aro and sold my ittok massive improvement, followed quickly with an olive armeggedon huge improvement. Maybe the Aro needs the armeggdon i don't know.
Regards,
Martin
Regards,
Martin
So with the Armageddon, you are obviously not interested in 45rpm LPs? Sad, that, IMO.
I bought a Lingo 1 in about 1995 and recently upgraded to a late-model Lingo 2 - great improvement! I also bought my LP12 in 1978. If all that is original on your 1978 LP12 is your outer platter, what have you done as regards the:
* motor
* subchassis/armboard
* plinth?
Regards,
Andy
martin dawson
pfm Member
Motor has been replaced 3 times, plinth i'm on my 3rd as its a corner braced unit still in afromosia top plate changed a couple of years ago to the extra bolt type. Sub chassis was changed to the cirkus and arm board came with the Aro. i found a huge difference from the armeggedon to the lingo mark 1, not really fussed about 45's as i have some 5000 LP's. Same as a jump from Aro to ittok like night and day.
Hi, all.
Several people say that fitting the Mose is easy (I already have a Hercules Gold fitted internally by a dealer), but I can't really see how given that I believe you can only access the LP12 circuitry from underneath and clearly you can't just tip the LP12 on its side! Don't you need a special open table to get into the LP12 from underneath? Won't the suspension then have to be re-set? Any thoughts?
Several people say that fitting the Mose is easy (I already have a Hercules Gold fitted internally by a dealer), but I can't really see how given that I believe you can only access the LP12 circuitry from underneath and clearly you can't just tip the LP12 on its side! Don't you need a special open table to get into the LP12 from underneath? Won't the suspension then have to be re-set? Any thoughts?
Dealer's use a Linn 'jig' - an open frame which holds the LP12 off the bench, so they can get at the underside.
If (like me) you can't justify 150 quid to get a jig and you are able to cut ply or MDF or chipboard sheets ... you can make up something that will do the job fine ... but just a bit inconveniently, compared to the Linn jig.
Get a sheet of ply/MDF/chipboard which is, say, 12" deeper (back to front) and 30" wider (side to side) than the plinth dimensions and cut a rectangular hole out of the middle so that the bevelled bottom edge of the plinth just sits inside the hole ... but can't slip through.
Rest this 'holed' sheet on 2 dining room chairs then lie on your back, on the floor between the chairs, to get at the underneath of the deck. Of course, you need to remove the base-board or Trampolin.
And, yes, the suspension will probably have to be re-aligned when you're through doing what you had to do.
Good luck,
Andy
davidsrsb
pfm Member
What are you doing to your motors? I had one fail on my STD almost new and since then unchanged in 35 years
Howdy
pfm Member
Was this comparison ever done, it would be great to hear how the Mose compared to the MK1 Lingo
Gromit
Plasticine Dog
To resurrect this thread - I'm with Samz in being keen to know. I'm running the on-board Herc II (bought because I need 45rpm) but am considering Mose-ing the psu.
TheDecameron
Unicorns fart glitter.
Where can one buy the Mose box and associated wiring for the herc II?
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
Contact Edmund who designed and manufactured the Mose. I bought mine from him way back in 2009 when I still had my LP12.
[email protected]
Cheers,
DV