iansr
pfm Member
John has already said on FB that the initial listening impressions were “very very good”.
The John Westlake/Lakewest MDAC/FDAC, VFET and Detox
- Thread starter Tony L
- Start date
killie99
pfm Member
John Westlake needs to come here and update this thread, his attitude to the people who cannot use Facebook is deplorable.
He doesn't update here, he doesn't reply to emails. He gives the impression he really doesn't give a $hit that he's taken £100,000 from people and owes them any sort of explanation as to what is going on.
fred sonnen
pfm Member
Always the same old song from a handful of people.
If only one of those people would at least be at the end of their insignificant story wrote: "But, that's right, we drove him away with our same old frivolities. Sorry to the rest of our little group."
But that will probably never happen. One would have to be capable of self-reflection.
And all this just to get to the top of the Google search results.
Thank you.
If only one of those people would at least be at the end of their insignificant story wrote: "But, that's right, we drove him away with our same old frivolities. Sorry to the rest of our little group."
But that will probably never happen. One would have to be capable of self-reflection.
And all this just to get to the top of the Google search results.
Thank you.
killie99
pfm Member
Fred, are you seriously suggesting that this monstrous fiasco is the fault of anyone other than John Westlake?
I’m sure he’d be delighted if we all just sat back and said nothing of the missed deadlines and failure to deliver anything we have paid for.
He has a duty to keep all the investors up to date with what is happening, not just the ones who have joined his private group where he cannot be held to account. He happily used the publicity on a public forum to generate interest and get himself funding of £100,000.
I’m sure he’d be delighted if we all just sat back and said nothing of the missed deadlines and failure to deliver anything we have paid for.
He has a duty to keep all the investors up to date with what is happening, not just the ones who have joined his private group where he cannot be held to account. He happily used the publicity on a public forum to generate interest and get himself funding of £100,000.
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
Has it possibly dawned on you that you might be demanding an apology from the wrong people, O sage of self-reflection?
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adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
Thanks
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
I very much doubt if we hadn't screamed and kicked up a fuss the project would look like something that was originally promised all those years ago, we would have some new improved clock system linked to a pulsar in some godforsaken corner of the galaxy ready by Munich....
iansr
pfm Member
I have a short multiple choice quiz for for the people who regularly whinge and level accusations at JW.
Q1. The effect of such posts is to:
A1. Encourage JW to work harder and will therefore result in the various products being produced sooner than would otherwise be the case, or
A2. Have no impact on timescale - JW already puts in long hours and works to a self imposed standard which dictates the rate of progress.
Q2. Are such posts likely to increase the frequency with which JW posts on this forum?
A1. Yes, he finds them motivating and they clearly encourage him to post here.
A2. No, he finds them dispiriting and irksome and as a consequence he visits and posts less frequently than he otherwise would.
Don’t misinterpret this post. I would have liked my new DAC a long time ago, but I’m realistic about the situation. I have every faith that it will arrive, but I know I can’t influence how long it will take. Unless you are completely delusional you will know which of the above answers are most closely aligned with the reality of the situation. I suggest that you let that knowledge inform your future actions. If of course you have some other agenda then this post is unlikely to change what you post.
Q1. The effect of such posts is to:
A1. Encourage JW to work harder and will therefore result in the various products being produced sooner than would otherwise be the case, or
A2. Have no impact on timescale - JW already puts in long hours and works to a self imposed standard which dictates the rate of progress.
Q2. Are such posts likely to increase the frequency with which JW posts on this forum?
A1. Yes, he finds them motivating and they clearly encourage him to post here.
A2. No, he finds them dispiriting and irksome and as a consequence he visits and posts less frequently than he otherwise would.
Don’t misinterpret this post. I would have liked my new DAC a long time ago, but I’m realistic about the situation. I have every faith that it will arrive, but I know I can’t influence how long it will take. Unless you are completely delusional you will know which of the above answers are most closely aligned with the reality of the situation. I suggest that you let that knowledge inform your future actions. If of course you have some other agenda then this post is unlikely to change what you post.
fred sonnen
pfm Member
Thats the point.
The icing on the cake is the decline in decency and manners. But unfortunately it has become the normal case in the net today.
I am sure, however, that the perpetrators have a completely different opinion. But unfortunately the result for us as a group / affected persons is strongly influenced by them.
evand
Just press play
Now that is what I'd term delusional.
iansr
pfm Member
Because I have spent time with John and as a result I know the kind of person he is.
iansr
pfm Member
See above
fred sonnen
pfm Member
Since here some incorrigibles keep spouting the same nonsense over and over again, I refrain from quoting myself:
As so often in the last months, a few rehearse the dwarves' revolt here. Knowing that they speak only for themselves and a very small part of supporters of J. Westlake here in the Forum through their always same accusations and insinuations. Even more: John, whom they are fondly hostile towards, has long put them on the Ignore List because of their blind rage. -> They can't even reach him anymore... And if you consider the lack of support, of the silent majority, others don't care about their texts either.
So why? Because of the long-term memory of Google Search. If you just make a little effort and produce decent click numbers, even with the biggest crap, you will get up in the search hits!
J. Westlake is certainly a designer who should report here in the forum more regularly and in more detail. This is a debt to be discharged, which he is not even close to fulfilling! But when "blaming" him for the lack, one should not confuse cause and effect. Correct is that
- the design process takes more than a long time
- therefore the life circumstances (age, hearing, finances) of the sponsors have changed fundamentally in some cases
- this is not taken into account, financially
- we may also be victims of the turn towards DAC devices without DAC chips
In total J. Westlake has collected over 100T EUR in development funds here. But even in the Czech Republic you can not live on it for a long time.
It is therefore understandable that spin-offs in commercial projects were and are used to generate income. But transparency would have been helpful here. Even a J. Westlake can't leave the professional scene for years and only take care of a few dozen fishies.
Not to forget his advance investments in components, machines and old audio gear. These are also known here in principle. Whether he will ever be able to use them beyond the production of "our" gear remains to be seen.
It is also true, however, that we, the supporters, have at least contributed to the delays through a never-ending wish list and by raising the requirements. For example, I am very enthusiastic about the fact that there is an output stage equipped with tubes . This is then enhanced by the perfectionist ideas of J. Westlake about his work...
John was generally quite transparent about his actions and the reasons for them. Also his turning away from the ESS DAC's was transparent. I cannot think of a big outcry in this respect.
Nevertheless, in the last few months the same accusations and hostility came from the same smal group of people.
The people who could met J. Westlake personally describe him as a sincere person. Who also knows what he is talking about... From my point of view, who has never spoken to J. Westlake personally, or even met him, I have little (financial need, but who wants to judge/ decide) or no understanding for the hostility that is being poured out on him!
If these lines meet reality halfway, you can see that much was dependent on many things and is mutually dependent. In the end, it is personal sensitivities and oversized egos of a few, which have caused the poisoned atmosphere. I'd make myself scarce as a victim, too.
I assume that we will soon have devices in our hands that will make us one of the privileged people in the audio / DAC sector. In terms of value, price-performance and features.
And I doubt that the people who talk so badly about J. Westlake today will persevere and praise him with the same dedication!
As so often in the last months, a few rehearse the dwarves' revolt here. Knowing that they speak only for themselves and a very small part of supporters of J. Westlake here in the Forum through their always same accusations and insinuations. Even more: John, whom they are fondly hostile towards, has long put them on the Ignore List because of their blind rage. -> They can't even reach him anymore... And if you consider the lack of support, of the silent majority, others don't care about their texts either.
So why? Because of the long-term memory of Google Search. If you just make a little effort and produce decent click numbers, even with the biggest crap, you will get up in the search hits!
J. Westlake is certainly a designer who should report here in the forum more regularly and in more detail. This is a debt to be discharged, which he is not even close to fulfilling! But when "blaming" him for the lack, one should not confuse cause and effect. Correct is that
- the design process takes more than a long time
- therefore the life circumstances (age, hearing, finances) of the sponsors have changed fundamentally in some cases
- this is not taken into account, financially
- we may also be victims of the turn towards DAC devices without DAC chips
In total J. Westlake has collected over 100T EUR in development funds here. But even in the Czech Republic you can not live on it for a long time.
It is therefore understandable that spin-offs in commercial projects were and are used to generate income. But transparency would have been helpful here. Even a J. Westlake can't leave the professional scene for years and only take care of a few dozen fishies.
Not to forget his advance investments in components, machines and old audio gear. These are also known here in principle. Whether he will ever be able to use them beyond the production of "our" gear remains to be seen.
It is also true, however, that we, the supporters, have at least contributed to the delays through a never-ending wish list and by raising the requirements. For example, I am very enthusiastic about the fact that there is an output stage equipped with tubes . This is then enhanced by the perfectionist ideas of J. Westlake about his work...
John was generally quite transparent about his actions and the reasons for them. Also his turning away from the ESS DAC's was transparent. I cannot think of a big outcry in this respect.
Nevertheless, in the last few months the same accusations and hostility came from the same smal group of people.
The people who could met J. Westlake personally describe him as a sincere person. Who also knows what he is talking about... From my point of view, who has never spoken to J. Westlake personally, or even met him, I have little (financial need, but who wants to judge/ decide) or no understanding for the hostility that is being poured out on him!
If these lines meet reality halfway, you can see that much was dependent on many things and is mutually dependent. In the end, it is personal sensitivities and oversized egos of a few, which have caused the poisoned atmosphere. I'd make myself scarce as a victim, too.
I assume that we will soon have devices in our hands that will make us one of the privileged people in the audio / DAC sector. In terms of value, price-performance and features.
And I doubt that the people who talk so badly about J. Westlake today will persevere and praise him with the same dedication!
tell me Fred/Iain , can you eloquently defend JW taking £2200 from a lot of investors for VFETS 5 years ago with zero development apparent ?
IIRC it was cited at the time as a simple project that could have run in parallel to MDAC development, also zero technical input from investors hampering the development
IIRC it was cited at the time as a simple project that could have run in parallel to MDAC development, also zero technical input from investors hampering the development
Stunsworth
pfm Member
The money wasn't for John to live on, it was to fund the development of the MDAC 2 - the original timescale was measured in months - and that was six years ago. I'm sure John isn't a dishonest person, it's just that his strength is (obviously) as a designer not a manufacturer. The number of revisions to the project hasn't helped - MDAC, than FDAC, then MDAC again, then DEVDAC, with a few totally different technologies added to the mix. Not to mention Detox, streamer and touch sensitive OLED front panel.
Personally I have no problem with John using what he's designed for us to be used commercially by a third party. Indeed that's what's happened with the products he's designed for Pro-Ject. The irony is that while waiting for the MDAC/FDAC to be released I've bought a Pro-Ject S2 Pre DAC based on one of the development DACs he designed during this project.
You may not believe this, but I bare no hostility towards John, and I live in hope that we will eventually see something for our investment, but mentally I've written off my contribution.
russel
./_dazed_and_confused
John allowed himself to be distracted too much, that is ok if it's your money and a hobby, it's not ok if it's someone elses money. John could have delivered the simple upgrade many years ago and built on that to pursue more advanced models requiring more funding but now that development model has gone, also as Tony has said he will not be allowing any more crowd funded development projects on his site, which is a shame because it's a nice idea and should of got us all excellent hifi at reduced cost, so this project mismanagement has ruined the chance for other developers as well as other buyers. I didn't start getting annoyed until we were four years in, that is more than enough time to finish a DAC, particularly as John has plenty of experience in that area. I cannot understand the amplifier delay as they are comparatively simple compared to a DAC.
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
Yes and you are one of them.
misterdog
Not the canine kind
I dropped it off for you a couple of weeks ago though..