advertisement


The 2021 F1 Season.

Tony Lockhart said:
Thanks for that, Ian.

I've already moved on. Those cars racing yesterday are now, apart from testing young hopefuls, pretty much junk now. (Will we ever see them at Goodwood FoS?)
Click to expand...
After 30+ years working in F1 I was very disappointed to see what happened, but I have more than enough experience of the FIA etc to know that you just have to move on.

So both you and @Sonority have done the right thing.

I am sure that we will see some of these cars at Goodwood.
 
IanW said:
No chance. There was almost no chance after the race and it gets less likely the more time has elapsed after the race.

The FIA will I am sure be very happy to move on from the mess they caused with decisions in this race.

Merc will be happy to get the new season started as they are very likely to dominate again for the next few years (as I have said many times, as has @tiggers ) as this years car was not developed (no development tokens were used) whereas other teams were fighting to catch Merc or to finish 3rd etc. That left Merc free to start work on their 2022 car well before anyone other team. And as core performance comes from time in the wind tunnel / CFD (each team has a limited number of hours in the wind tunnel due to FIA regulations), they will have spent more time in the wind tunnel then anyone, courtesy of starting before anyone else. Interestingly every team that I know people at all say the same thing. That the development gradient is very steep, which, again, is why the more time in the tunnel, the faster that team is likely to be.
Click to expand...

i really enjoyed reading that post good to get an insight from someone who obviously knows what’s what. I wonder though why it’s saying in the press all this about 96 hours to lodge an appeal?, if Mercedes have no intention of doing it knowing that it won’t get anywhere anyways?. It would ruin the awards ceremony for sure if they did. Myself being an armchair fan for many years feel it would be sensible to just forget about it and move on. At least Hamilton seemed to accept it very quickly and not throw his dummy out like Max did last week by not attending the podium. Lewis came out of this with a lot of respect I feel and was very sporting given his obvious disappointment.
 
I've seen a couple of articles today saying Hamilton wants the appeal dropped. I can believe that, as in 2007 he didn't want the two cars with inconsistent fuel samples to be protested by McLaren despite the fact that had they been excluded he'd have been WC.
 
Suffolk Tony said:
Surely, and probably very naive of me to suggest, it would have been sportsmanlike for Verstappen to follow Hamilton to the chequered flag?
Click to expand...


Not only would that not be "sportsmanlike", it would be dereliction of duty. As long as the race is on, it's every driver's job to finish as high as possible, within the rules. What you are suggesting is essentially the same as if they had finished the race under the safety car. Apparently that thought was abhorrent to the Race Director.

It's a part of racing that if there's a safety car period, the field will get bunched up. It's a "race reset". It's one of the elements of chance. To try to neutralize the bunching effect of a safety car period would be unsporting.
 
"It’s since emerged the Silver Arrows have given up on protesting the decision, meaning Verstappen has now officially etched his name into the history books." One of your UK newspapers writes this after Bottas' opinion and Ecclestone's opinion, so probably fake news :)
 
In the past Charlie Whiting was well respected for his mostly sensible fair rulings and I am pretty certain he would have finished the race under the safety car as there was no time for lapped cars to pass to the back of the field and was not interested in making a spectacle !
Now the deed has been done I also think Merc should give up on the appeal as others have said they will not get a result .FIA must appoint a new race director who will apply the rules with consistancy and not be bargaining with teams to find a "nice solution " ,team pressure also not allowed .
Looking forward to next year from now on !
 
From planetf1 website, I agree with Timo in article and Martin as one of many similar comments.
This is why F1 looks a bit like a joke at the moment. You never know what decision there will be, as what counts is what some bloke in position as race director thinks in the heat of the moment. People do not talk about Max, Redbull, Lewis, they talk about some FIA official, unknown to many before last race - Michael Masi! And that is a shame for everyone involved in the sport, shame for fans and especially shame for Max, as this brilliant driver will always have this attached to his first championship: gifted by race director. As some other person commented, in football, this would be treated as illegal result fixing.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/timo-glock-fia-criticism-abu-dhabi/
Martin56m
Such a shame that one of the best seasons in the last 8 years is tainted. Will always be remembered as a Fraud Championship due to Michael Masi.
Lando "Pushing Perez off the Track" in Austria that cost Lando 2nd in that race but Verstappen got away with it in many other races IE Brazil.
The fake race at Spa, that allowed Max to gain points for a non race.
The last 3 races such as Brazil race where Max pushed Lewis off the track and got away with it, in Saudi Arabia. Michael Masi negotiating with Red Bull.
Congratulations to Max Verstappens first World Championship gifted to him by Michael Masi which will be forever tainted by 50% of the F1 fan base.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Yank said:
Not only would that not be "sportsmanlike", it would be dereliction of duty. As long as the race is on, it's every driver's job to finish as high as possible, within the rules. What you are suggesting is essentially the same as if they had finished the race under the safety car. Apparently that thought was abhorrent to the Race Director.

It's a part of racing that if there's a safety car period, the field will get bunched up. It's a "race reset". It's one of the elements of chance. To try to neutralize the bunching effect of a safety car period would be unsporting.
Click to expand...
Well, I guess you and I have different moral compasses from each other then.
 
This is one situation where AI should be put in place to take over. Masi chopped and changed his mind with pressure over the radio from RB and Liberty Media. The rules could be easily followed by AI dependent on track status, positions, debris status, number of laps left etc. Charlie Whiting was amazing, but the racing should be about the drivers and cars, rather than an FIA decision under pressure,,

there is AI intervention in most other sports now, cricket, tennis, football, swimming etc, but none in F1 even though it is such a fast paced race and obviously can’t be rewound to take a look (!) Make the rules clear, and build a computer to stick to them… the drivers will know it won’t make incorrect decisions, won’t change its mind, (and so will those sat on the pit wall) so they’ll just get on with the racing…..

might that work?
 
Eyebroughty said:
Interesting comments from Ted Kravitz on Sergio Perez being only filled 3/4 full so as to give him an advantage in holding up Lewis Hamilton, and that was why they retired him later.
Click to expand...

Given what happened to Vettel earlier in the season was there a realisation that Perez might not have enough fuel to finish the race and he was "pulled" to ensure the 1ltr extraction rule could be complied with? Are the teams required to demonstrate that they have sufficient fuel in the car to finish the race? Would RB have been required to demonstrate that, at the time Perez stopped in the pit lane, he had enough fuel to finish the race?

I don't pretend to understand the intricacies of the rules but if what is being suggested was afoot then there are some clever people out there.......... Racing isn't always won out on the track after all.

Regards

Richard
 
All teams have to let the FIA know how much fuel they have put in the car for the race. All cars are weighed before the race on the FIA weighbridge. The cars are in parc ferme and the teas cannot do anything to them as an FIA scrutineer is there to check what happens and inform to the stewards.

There is no way that PER could have been racing with 3/4 of a tank of fuel, lap as fast as he did during the race (he was much faster than BOT and everyone else apart from Lewis or VER) use the high power engine modes to keep Lewis behind for many laps and then get to 4 laps from the end.

All RBR could have done to make the car lighter later in the race is burn more fuel. They would do that by getting the driver to select the higher power modes. Which would have helped a bit to keep Lewis behind in the middle of the race. But the bigger factor in keeping Lewis behind would have been energy harvesting, targeted energy use and PER race craft in knowing where to put the car and when. Far more significant and difficult than just selecting the highest power engine mode which they can only use for a certain amount of time before the engine starts to lose performance.
 
Within all this furore let’s not forget that MB are World Constructors Champions! Not RB, not Honda. Maybe MB will reflect in the cold light of day. If they are really pissed then they could withdraw from F1 and due to force majeure also withdraw all their engines…meaning that 8 cars could be missing from the grid for the start of the new season. This the threat that RB keep using, imagine if MB actually did it.
 
Well whatever happened last Sunday it is in the past, am sure it will raise many theories about what may or may not have happened during the race, as has been said lets move on.

Let us hope that the 2022 F1 season gives less off track issues and more racing.
 
clivem2 said:
Within all this furore let’s not forget that MB are World Constructors Champions! Not RB, not Honda. Maybe MB will reflect in the cold light of day. If they are really pissed then the could withdraw from F1 and due to force majeure also withdraw all their engines…meaning that 8 cars could be missing from the grid for the start of the new season. This the threat that RB keep using, imagine if MB actually did it.
Click to expand...

I was trying to imagine the uproar had Lewis been given the race by the RD, after Max led it for 50 odd laps. I'm sure we might just have heard a little about it from Horner and co.

I think the way Mercedes are almost obligated to just let it go and not make a fuss by virtue of having been a very successful team, is quite telling. The rights of wrongs of what actually happened v what their own rules say - should be the only consideration.
 
I think we all just need to move on. I will be surprised if Merc pursue it any further and it seems Hamilton doesn't want them to either. Far better to regroup and come back fighting next year. Imagine the pleasure they'd get from winning next year after this mess.

Max's WC will forever be tainted by this and that is sad for him as over the season he drove so very well.

What all the teams do need to do is put pressure on the FIA to make the rules clearer and enforce them consistently. The biggest issue for me in this last race was when Masi said he wasn't going to let the lapped cars go and then allowed his mind to be changed by a team principal (doesn't matter who or which team it was). It's one thing to not apply the rules correctly and another to allow yourself to be deflected from your choice by someone with everything to gain into still not applying them correctly but to the benefit of a team who were in no position to benefit for the preceding 95% of the race due to being outdriven.
 
tiggers said:
I think we all just need to move on. I will be surprised if Merc pursue it any further and it seems Hamilton doesn't want them to either. Far better to regroup and come back fighting next year. Imagine the pleasure they'd get from winning next year after this mess.

Max's WC will forever be tainted by this and that is sad for him as over the season he drove so very well.

What all the teams do need to do is put pressure on the FIA to make the rules clearer and enforce them consistently. The biggest issue for me in this last race was when Masi said he wasn't going to let the lapped cars go and then allowed his mind to be changed by a team principal (doesn't matter who or which team it was). It's one thing to not apply the rules correctly and another to allow yourself to be deflected from your choice by someone with everything to gain into still not applying them correctly but to the benefit of a team who were in no position to benefit for the preceding 95% of the race due to being outdriven.
Click to expand...
My guess is that MB will use the threat of their appeal, an appeal would look bad for everyone. Yes, they will lose too. What they should be pushing for in the background (not publically) is an assurance on what you say...consistency and clear rules and red (or white) lines. If they get a suitable assurance then they drop Thursday's appeal. It's all politics, what plays out in public is only theatre - eg the Ferrari deal on their engine.

Mercedes Benz - World Champions!

Lewis Hamilton - de facto World Champion - hmm, doesn't have quite the same ring. How many teeshirts will there at Silverstone next year with some form of quip?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.


advertisement


Back
Top