clivem2
pfm Member
I believe gear ratios are set for the season so they can't be tuned for each track as they used to be.
The 2019 F1 season.
- Thread starter Tony Lockhart
- Start date
TPA
Trade: Tiger Paw
I was surprised at the comments from three ex F1 drivers at the time. I understand their sentiments that it potentially robbed both themselves and viewers of a race between two top drivers in rival cars - something that many people have been looking forward to for some time. However, the sport like any/all others has specific rules that ensure fair racing, and also more importantly, safe racing.
If you leave a track then it is absolutely fundamental that you rejoin the race safely. That does not mean placing your car in the way of another at a speed that is not comparable. I knew instantly that it was a calculated move on behalf of Vettel. I would be intrigued to see the telemetry from the incident. I would suggest that when he rejoined the track he was accelerating hard in order to minimise his time loss, this in turn would reduce rear traction, hence the car stepping out (this would be unlikely to occur at neutral throttle) so it is absolutely clear that he did not attempt to join the track safely, but as quickly as possible. I'm quite sure that the telemetry would also show that the lateral force on the car was at a minimal figure that would not cause a slide. He knew exactly where Hamilton would be and chose to block off his path.
In a similar position, I imagine that most drivers would similarly try and defend their position after an error in exactly the same way - that does not make it correct though. So yes, in my view the decision was absolutely correct, and I do not understand why Brundle, Button and Chandhok came to a different conclusion.
Finally, the fact that Vettel refused to accept the decision of the Stewards speaks volumes for where he is at the moment. He is not thinking straight, it reminds me when he swerved at Hamilton at Baku during a safety car restart, he literally gets a red mist and loses complete perspective. Similarly his decision to boycott the presentation at the end of the race was equally childish - he has contractual obligations to his team and the sport and I have no doubt they were pointed out to him in no uncertain terms hence his later attendance. His decision making capacity is deeply flawed.
The best way to have proceeded would have been to bring leclerc in to play. Slow Hamilton down, allow Leclerc to get on to him and see how it played out. Either way they would have a Ferrari 2, 3 on the podium but could have had a Ferrari 1, 3, or even a 1, 2. If I'd been a steward I would have banned him from the final result for not presenting his car at the winners area just to teach him another lesson. He is privileged to compete in a sophisticated sport, the rewards for which are substantial and he is becoming increasingly a liability.
If you leave a track then it is absolutely fundamental that you rejoin the race safely. That does not mean placing your car in the way of another at a speed that is not comparable. I knew instantly that it was a calculated move on behalf of Vettel. I would be intrigued to see the telemetry from the incident. I would suggest that when he rejoined the track he was accelerating hard in order to minimise his time loss, this in turn would reduce rear traction, hence the car stepping out (this would be unlikely to occur at neutral throttle) so it is absolutely clear that he did not attempt to join the track safely, but as quickly as possible. I'm quite sure that the telemetry would also show that the lateral force on the car was at a minimal figure that would not cause a slide. He knew exactly where Hamilton would be and chose to block off his path.
In a similar position, I imagine that most drivers would similarly try and defend their position after an error in exactly the same way - that does not make it correct though. So yes, in my view the decision was absolutely correct, and I do not understand why Brundle, Button and Chandhok came to a different conclusion.
Finally, the fact that Vettel refused to accept the decision of the Stewards speaks volumes for where he is at the moment. He is not thinking straight, it reminds me when he swerved at Hamilton at Baku during a safety car restart, he literally gets a red mist and loses complete perspective. Similarly his decision to boycott the presentation at the end of the race was equally childish - he has contractual obligations to his team and the sport and I have no doubt they were pointed out to him in no uncertain terms hence his later attendance. His decision making capacity is deeply flawed.
The best way to have proceeded would have been to bring leclerc in to play. Slow Hamilton down, allow Leclerc to get on to him and see how it played out. Either way they would have a Ferrari 2, 3 on the podium but could have had a Ferrari 1, 3, or even a 1, 2. If I'd been a steward I would have banned him from the final result for not presenting his car at the winners area just to teach him another lesson. He is privileged to compete in a sophisticated sport, the rewards for which are substantial and he is becoming increasingly a liability.
Tony Lockhart
Avoiding Stress, at Every Opportunity
Ratios are set in stone for the year, no changes.
narabdela
who?
I'll have to brush up on my Highway code!
It was " mirror, signal, manoeuvre" when I passed my test.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Yes I know that but they gear for the 2.2km straight n Baku which is twice as long as the longest in Canada so top gear must be massive.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
FTFY
Tony L
Administrator
I remain unconvinced by Vettel, it seems the red mist descends fairly easily and tantrums often follow, as such I’m not convinced his return to track was as neat as it could have been. By saying that I think the penalty was too harsh, at most his anger or incompetence cost Hamilton a second, maybe 1.5 tops, and I think that would have been a fairer penalty. Maybe a grid position subtracted from the next race would have been better again as it wouldn’t have impacted the race. I’m surprised Hamilton couldn’t get past him after the announcement was made as he was clearly raging and likely to make another error if pushed. That would have been the best outcome.
Rack Kit
pfm Member
I only saw the highlights but he was pushing him again at the end to make sure the penalty wouldn't have any bearing on the result but the Red cars just had too much speed on the straights for him to get past. Ferrari didn't mind giving up the first 2 sectors of the track to Mercedes knowing that final 3rd sector is the only place to really make a pass.
As soon as I saw the incident, I knew Seb had done it deliberately. He's got form for banging into his team mates. Just ask Mark Webber and look how he lost his cool (and title chances) in Baku last year. Lewis just knows how to rattle him & Seb makes another mistake under pressure from him again.
The ex drivers are were just pandering to the crowds wish to see a proper battle. It still would've been if Lewis had got by as Seb had more than enough pace to have a go back at him.
Eyebroughty
JohnC
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
He does crash of course and also has had brain fades. Thing is, it is very rare and hardly ever in wheel to wheel battle. It has got to the point now when ever HAM gets close to VET in a racing situation, I expect VET to crack.
Rack Kit
pfm Member
This was practise. No points are given out during this time.
If you need any more help - just ask!
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
HAM comments on what VET did and admits he would have done the same
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143997/hamilton-id-have-done-the-same-as-vettel
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/143997/hamilton-id-have-done-the-same-as-vettel
clivem2
pfm Member
Yes I'm sure just about any "sports person" due their highly competitive nature would have instinctively reacted in the same way.
It's still wrong - just as if we speed and we're caught there's not much you can do about it. It is yet another error by Vettel but perhaps ones of his more understandable ones.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
Just looked up the stats and they are correct. VET was fastest in qualifying at 333kph but in the race (probably due to not getting DRS as he was in front) he was pretty much the slowest:
1 18 Lance Stroll 336.7
2 11 Sergio Pérez 333.1
3 3 Daniel Ricciardo 333.0
4 10 Pierre Gasly 332.4
5 55 Carlos Sainz Jr. 332.4
6 33 Max Verstappen 331.5
7 63 George Russell 331.1
8 77 Valtteri Bottas 331.0
9 7 Kimi Räikkönen 330.4
10 20 Kevin Magnussen 330.3
11 26 Daniil Kvyat 329.7
12 8 Romain Grosjean 329.3
13 44 Lewis Hamilton 329.3
14 16 Charles Leclerc 328.0
15 27 Nico Hülkenberg 327.5
16 23 Alexander Albon 327.4
17 99 A.Giovinazzi 326.7
18 88 Robert Kubica 326.6
19 5 Sebastian Vettel 324.5
20 4 Lando Norris 314.4
That said, he was only 5 clicks down on HAM with DRS. His traction and acceleration were clearly good enough out of the hairpin along with using all his ERS energy on that straight to keep away from the Merc.
Eyebroughty
JohnC
Hamilton is right he would have done the same and has done.
They all have their own way of reacting to a racing situation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/formula1/15054952
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/jun/13/jenson-button-lewis-hamilton-canadian-gp
Thanks for the offer of help, but I have been watching and following F1 since Raymond Baxter was doing the commentary.
They all have their own way of reacting to a racing situation.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/formula1/15054952
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2011/jun/13/jenson-button-lewis-hamilton-canadian-gp
Thanks for the offer of help, but I have been watching and following F1 since Raymond Baxter was doing the commentary.
cutting42
Arrived at B4 Hacker Ergo
He suffered a penalty 25sec penalty for a strict interpretation of the rules in the 2008 Belgian GP when he cut a corner during a battle with Kimi, let Kimi back through but was still punished stripping him of the on road victory.
https://www.racefans.net/2008/09/07...-belgian-gp-win-another-asinine-fia-decision/
Vettels behaviour after the race was very childish ,obviously he was very annoyed but he is paid vast sums to act in a professional manner , I feel he should face extra penalties for this perhaps a fine or grid place penalty next time out .He always panics when he makes a mistake and he only has himself to blame for the consequences
pjdowns
Living the Hifi dream
There are a lot of people crying about this online.
My take is this, Lewis put a lot of pressure on Vettel, who made another mistake. He came back on the track and blocked Lewis, resulting in Lewis having to take avoiding action to avoid hitting the wall or Vettel.
The most sensible thing for Vettel to have done at that stage, would have been to acknowledge he made an error, and allow Lewis through, and then chased him down for the remainder of the race.
The other option was for him to build a 5 second gap on Lewis on the road, which he clearly didn't/couldn't do.
My personal view on why he didn't do this is that he ultimately knew that Lewis was quicker than him throughout the race and knew that if he let him through he couldn't get past, and clearly he couldn't get 5 seconds up for the road for scenario two.
What this has shown again is that Lewis is at a different level to Vettel, yes he makes the odd mistake (like in practice), but as Martin Brundle and Jenson Button both said, he is relentless and just doesn't give up.
My take is this, Lewis put a lot of pressure on Vettel, who made another mistake. He came back on the track and blocked Lewis, resulting in Lewis having to take avoiding action to avoid hitting the wall or Vettel.
The most sensible thing for Vettel to have done at that stage, would have been to acknowledge he made an error, and allow Lewis through, and then chased him down for the remainder of the race.
The other option was for him to build a 5 second gap on Lewis on the road, which he clearly didn't/couldn't do.
My personal view on why he didn't do this is that he ultimately knew that Lewis was quicker than him throughout the race and knew that if he let him through he couldn't get past, and clearly he couldn't get 5 seconds up for the road for scenario two.
What this has shown again is that Lewis is at a different level to Vettel, yes he makes the odd mistake (like in practice), but as Martin Brundle and Jenson Button both said, he is relentless and just doesn't give up.
The Chronicals
Disruptor
Didn't I say Lance Stroll was gonna win...(something)? I'm like the Oracle.