The 2019 F1 season.

[Colin L]

Vettel kept saying that he did nothing wrong.. he went off the track and when he rejoined he seems to me to steer deliberately onto the racing line to block. So he did do something wrong. He went off the track and Hamilton had to take action to avoid a crash. The 5 sec penalty seems reasonable to me.

 

[The Chronicals]

Personally I think for the money the drivers are paid, Formula 1 should be a bit more 'Running Man' . So if they come off the track, the car immediately blows up, BOOM. This way, more people get a chance to drive and these type of track re-entry scenario's cant happen.

 

[cutting42]

That was a sucky result. No good feeling really.

However VET did make a mistake and left the track. Nearly anywhere else HAM would have got past as a result of the error. Trouble is there was not much he could have done differently.

That Ferrari is a missile on the straight though. A Merc with a brand new, more powerful spec engine and with DRS could not even get close.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

That Ferrari is a missile on the straight though. A Merc with a brand new, more powerful spec engine and with DRS could not even get close.

I’m sure I heard the Sky team say that the Ferrari’s top speed was nothing special.

 

[Rodrat]

The Merc was just as fast if not faster overall in race trim. It couldn’t stay close very long though without overheating the brakes so had to back off.

 

[cutting42]

The Merc was just as fast if not faster overall in race trim. It couldn’t stay close very long though without overheating the brakes so had to back off.

Fast(er) over a lap possibly but overtaking on the straight is all about getting a tow/DRS and top speed.

I’m sure I heard the Sky team say that the Ferrari’s top speed was nothing special.

I am sure they know better than us but do they explain HAM not even getting close to VET on the straight with overtake mode, DRS and a Tow?

 

[Eyebroughty]

Watched the Sky coverage, very dsappointed in the way the team would not suggest one way or another what they thought the result should be in their opinion.

Jenson Button came over, in my opinion, as a waste of space, he would know as a driver just how close that could have been yet sat on the fence.

The only one who said it like it was was Karun Chandhok, he explained as he slowed the action down on the Sky Pad from the onboards of both Vettel and Hamilton that Vettel had no other options than to do what he did.

Karun has gone way up in my opinion as an expert who is willing to tell it like it is, the rest are just sit on the fence people.

 

[cutting42]

Watched the Sky coverage, very dsappointed in the way the team would not suggest one way or another what they thought the result should be in their opinion.

Jenson Button came over, in my opinion, as a waste of space, he would know as a driver just how close that could have been yet sat on the fence.

The only one who said it like it was was Karun Chandhok, he explained as he slowed the action down on the Sky Pad from the onboards of both Vettel and Hamilton that Vettel had no other options than to do what he did.

Karun has gone way up in my opinion as an expert who is willing to tell it like it is, the rest are just sit on the fence people.

Not sure we watched the same program, Brundle was vociferously saying it should never have been a penalty as was Chandhok (as you say). I'd need to watch Buttons comments again but I pretty sure he came out in favour of "let them race" ie no penalty as well.

 

[narabdela]

I think I'm done now. I've followed F1 for over 50 years and I have to admit that I've been losing interest in recent years, but that utterly ridiculous outcome is the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Eyebroughty]

This was after the race when they were all discussing it, by then from what I could hear Brundle had changed to a more sit on the fence attitude to his race commentary.

Does it matter, not a lot really, but I would rather have someone like Karun saying it like he thinks it is than people changing their views to make things more acceptable to the viewers, or maybe their lords and masters.

 

[Rack Kit]

I'm going to guess that the decision had something to do with the nature of the track ie, the solid walls lining most of the circuit. The last thing you want is 2 cars smashing into hard walls on that narrow section of track at high speed. And call me a cynic but Seb allows his car to drift over just enough to make back out of the move. These guys can place cars within millimetres on a track a silly speeds and have reaction times way beyond us. That period between losing the front and regaining the track would have felt like a split second to us but a lifetime to them. Seb knows he could've kept a tighter line after regaining the track but knew it was going to compromise his speed and lose a place. I don't blame him for trying, he's a racer at the end of the day. I'd be disappointed if he didn't try to be honest but he was caught out this time.

I did laugh at him switching the finish signs around though.

 

[Tony Lockhart]

I am sure they know better than us but do they explain HAM not even getting close to VET on the straight with overtake mode, DRS and a Tow?

Once a car hits maximum speed dictated by max engine rpm, it won’t matter too much if there’s a tow, it just can’t go any faster. With a midfield car that has slightly worse aero and whose V-max is aero limited rather than rev limited, you’ll see them do some overtakes on other midfield cars.

 

[windhoek]

Although I reckon Vettel could have rejoined the track in a way that didn't force Hamilton to take evasive action, I still the decision was a bit harsh and resulted in a win for Hamilton that seems not entirely earned. I mean, these guys will always push the boundaries of what's permitted and the margin to rejoin without moving straight back to the racing line was tight, to say the least, but possible by a whisker. Either way, I reckon Hamilton would have done the same had he been in front and drove off where Vettel did. I guess it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things because once this season's over it'll be nothing more than a statistic: another P1 for Hamilton and another P2 for Vettel.

 

[Rack Kit]

Although I reckon Vettel could have rejoined the track in a way that didn't force Hamilton to take evasive action, I still the decision was a bit harsh and resulted in a win for Hamilton that seems not entirely earned. I mean, these guys will always push the boundaries of what's permitted and the margin to rejoin without moving straight back to the racing line was tight, to say the least, but possible by a whisker. Either way, I reckon Hamilton would have done the same had he been in front and drove off where Vettel did. I guess it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things because once this season's over it'll be nothing more than a statistic: another P1 for Hamilton and another P2 for Vettel.

This is the point, they're all racers and should be pushing the boundaries but it also means they both know that he could've joined without impeding each other which totally goes against why they're there in the first place. On another day at a different track he might've got away with it. Just.

 

[Weekender]

Main point for me is that Vettel made another mistake under pressure...that's probably as much the reason for his annoyance as the penalty.

 

[Rack Kit]

Main point for me is that Vettel made another mistake under pressure...that's probably as much the reason for his annoyance as the penalty.

Agreed. His mistake under pressure (again) is being overlooked because of his reaction antics during and after the race with was pretty much done for that reason. Still, it's got folk talking about F1 again - Bernie Ecclestone would be loving this.

 

[Rodrat]

At least Ferrari are no longer gifted immunity to almost anything as they had been in Bernie’s time

 

[windhoek]

And the big variable that we don't know (although I' argue we do) is the question of when did Vettel put the power down - did he wait until he was safely back on track and facing fully towards the correct direction of travel or did he give it full beans as soon as his rear tyres were back on the track before his car was lined up correctly? In my mind, Vettel gave it full beans as soon as his rear tyres made contact with the tarmac, which would explain why his car twitched and required a steering correction just as Hamilton was about to come alongside and presumably pass. If Vettel hadn't put the power down he would have been able to rejoin safely without moving across to impede Hamilton. But these guys are racing and I wouldn't expect any of them in the same scenario to hold off on putting the power down to make sure their immediate competitor can carry on unimpeded - that's not how racing works: every milimetre of the track is a battleground and is there to be won or lost, as the case may be. It just so happens Vettel lost because he won a smidge unfairly according to the letter of the law and Hamilton won because he lost a legitimate opportunity to pass because of the manner in which Vettel resumed battle after the briefest of interludes.

 

[clivem2]

From motorsport.com - Vettel was done for squeezing Ham once the coar was back under control:

"The stewards examined slow motion footage of Vettel's actions from the moment that he had regained control and started steering his car – and it was felt that it showed that the German could have chosen a different path than the one he took.

The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track – which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right by the German.

Shortly after that, however, Vettel has dispatched the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel which allows his car to drift to the right – cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.

The movement to straighten the wheel, which put Vettel into the path of Hamilton, is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel.

A further reason the stewards established was through the use of an extra CCTV camera view of the incident, which was not broadcast on the international feed, showing Vettel's head looking in the mirrors at where Hamilton was during these moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.

Onboard footage of the Vettel incident also shows his head looking towards the mirrors in the moment when he is drifting out, suggesting he knew where Hamilton was.

Had Vettel kept his car tight to the left once he had regained control, then there was likely enough room to have allowed Hamilton through on the right, in which case the matter would almost certainly not have been investigated.

The fact that telemetry data showed Hamilton had to brake to avoid the collision with Vettel showed how the Mercedes driver was caught out by his rival's actions.

Precedent for the Vettel decision to punish him for both rejoining the track in an unsafe manner and forcing a rival off the track was made last year in Japan when Max Verstappen was punished with a five-second penalty for a collision with Kimi Raikkonen at the chicane.

Verstappen had run wide at the chicane on the first lap of the race and rejoined in an aggressive manner, pushing Raikkonen wide on the exit.

At the time, the late F1 race director Charlie Whiting said: "You are required to rejoin safely and Kimi was there and pushing him off the track. So I think that was a fairly straightforward one for the stewards."

 

[cutting42]

Once a car hits maximum speed dictated by max engine rpm, it won’t matter too much if there’s a tow, it just can’t go any faster. With a midfield car that has slightly worse aero and whose V-max is aero limited rather than rev limited, you’ll see them do some overtakes on other midfield cars.

Yeah I get that but it raises two questions to me. I understood that max revs were not really used in the Turbo era as you don't need them for max torque/power as they did in the atmo era so there could easily be more revs available. Also They have plenty of gear range for much longer straights so why wouldn't they gear to allow the higher speeds under tow, they must understand this pretty well.