Taica silicone mushrooms for LP12
- Thread starter Jazzer
- Start date
Why don't you try putting Addis pad's between the mushrooms and the metal washers?
I used knurled thumbnuts Similar to Seyles in his picture.
I cant imagine them coming loose with the silicone pressing against them and it makes for very easy adjustment.
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
The locking nuts that came with the springs wouldn't spin up the thread to meet the washer, hence why I needed to buy normal M5 nuts. As for using pairs of nuts, I guess that's a gratuitous redundancy as one nut would have been perfectly adequate. It just so happens the packet of nuts and bolts I bought came with 7 of each so I thought I might use them as well seeing as they were there.
I may well experiment at some point in the future. This was the first time I've done any work underneath the top plate so I was just concentrating on getting it done without screwing up. It turns out it was much easier than I was expecting, albeit it still took a while as didn't want to rush things. But yeah, I might well have a go at doing something with the Addis pads and gel bushes in the future.
I suppose the first thing I should try is removing the bumpers between the bottom of the deck and the Addis pads because as it is, there are two compressible interfaces in operation in addition to the Addis pads, which have a completely different degree of compressibility altogether. It might well be the gel bushes and Addis pads alone will yield the best results. Or maybe the way it is just now is as good as it's going to get. I don't know, but I'll do some experiments at some point for sure.
Incidentally, it occurs to me that if I'd needed to have bought 4 gel bushes I would have ended up with 4 spare silicone rings to mess around with. As it is, I've only go three, but maybe I can mess around with that and see what I can come up with. Who knows, perhaps a new combo is just around the corner...
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
I perceived no loss of attack or dynamics with the mushrooms. For context, my LP12 has the Karousel bearing and Greenstreet sub, and Tiger-Paw Khan top plate. How I have installed the gel bushes is also a little different. The flanged half is inserted into the sub-chassis, and the smaller half is inserted between the flanged half and washer. I had to centre the lower piece carefully, but that is easy to do by touch and sight.
I feel my arrangement has a bit more give than Insoles, and that may explain why I prefer the tonal balance of mushrooms. Still not going back to Linn springs ...
I feel my arrangement has a bit more give than Insoles, and that may explain why I prefer the tonal balance of mushrooms. Still not going back to Linn springs ...
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
@windhoek
Great report(s) on the silicone mushrooms!
The LP12 plinth heavily depends upon "draining" vibrations to ground. This is why different plinths and different plinth materials can sound so very different.
The harder and more rigid the plinth and its feet, the faster and better the vibration drain works - and the better the LP12 sounds.
[This also explains why the LINN Trampolinn always makes the deck sound so much worse!]
I'd like to encourage you to try 100% solid feet - children's wooden blocks, or whatever? - directly under your plinth and remove (or just lift off the ground) any compliant feet from ground.
(The fact is, it is better to keep anything compliant off of the plinth, anywhere - for best sound...)
Our plinth has hardened steel threads threaded into the plinth and then fitted with ultra-hard BLACK DIAMOND Racing Cones. Dynamics are explosive!
Hoping you can give it a try sometime... and report!
Great report(s) on the silicone mushrooms!
The LP12 plinth heavily depends upon "draining" vibrations to ground. This is why different plinths and different plinth materials can sound so very different.
The harder and more rigid the plinth and its feet, the faster and better the vibration drain works - and the better the LP12 sounds.
[This also explains why the LINN Trampolinn always makes the deck sound so much worse!]
I'd like to encourage you to try 100% solid feet - children's wooden blocks, or whatever? - directly under your plinth and remove (or just lift off the ground) any compliant feet from ground.
(The fact is, it is better to keep anything compliant off of the plinth, anywhere - for best sound...)
Our plinth has hardened steel threads threaded into the plinth and then fitted with ultra-hard BLACK DIAMOND Racing Cones. Dynamics are explosive!
Hoping you can give it a try sometime... and report!
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windhoek
The Phoolosopher
I just tried using the wooden draughts pieces directly between plinth and mana glass but it just work out. I don't think it was as sleepy as it was when I was using bumpers only between plinth and mana glass, but it's definitely not as good as using the Addis pad combo between plinth and mana glass. The Addis pads really seem to like electromechanical stuff that sits on glass!
I also tried having Addis pads only between plinth and mana glass and although it didn't seem to introduce any softness, it just didn't sound as alive and airy as it does with the pad+bumper combo in place.
That's as far as experimentation goes, the Addis pad combo is staying put, and I'll be leaving the bushes alone as well. The deck is now the best front end I've ever had by a country mile so I'm just going to get on with playing records and having a good time.
In saying that, I might end up buying a fourth gel bush so that I can try four of the top halves beneath my 1210GR. I imagine that combo will involve Addis pads and perhaps bumpers and washers and nuts and bolts... but I'll leave that for another day
I also tried having Addis pads only between plinth and mana glass and although it didn't seem to introduce any softness, it just didn't sound as alive and airy as it does with the pad+bumper combo in place.
That's as far as experimentation goes, the Addis pad combo is staying put, and I'll be leaving the bushes alone as well. The deck is now the best front end I've ever had by a country mile so I'm just going to get on with playing records and having a good time.
In saying that, I might end up buying a fourth gel bush so that I can try four of the top halves beneath my 1210GR. I imagine that combo will involve Addis pads and perhaps bumpers and washers and nuts and bolts... but I'll leave that for another day
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
I just tried using the wooden draughts pieces directly between plinth and mana glass but it just work out. I don't think it was as sleepy as it was when I was using bumpers only between plinth and mana glass, but it's definitely not as good as using the Addis pad combo between plinth and mana glass. The Addis pads really seem to like electromechanical stuff that sits on glass!
I also tried having Addis pads only between plinth and mana glass and although it didn't seem to introduce any softness, it just didn't sound as alive and airy as it does with the pad+bumper combo in place.
That's as far as experimentation goes, the Addis pad combo is staying put, and I'll be leaving the bushes alone as well. The deck is now the best front end I've ever had by a country mile so I'm just going to get on with playing records and having a good time.
In saying that, I might end up buying a fourth gel bush so that I can try four of the top halves beneath my 1210GR. I imagine that combo will involve Addis pads and perhaps bumpers and washers and nuts and bolts... but I'll leave that for another day
Fair enough!
As others have commented, with the almost infinite number of LP12 variants possible these days, one has to trust their own ears as to exactly what delivers, in your system - and for your ears.
Seems like you are doing just that, so well done!
Well done too for trying the silicone mushrooms - when there are so many nay-sayers - who have never even heard a springless LP12 with their own ears.
You came out ahead…
I’m glad that you have gained an overall improvement and will benefit from the handling properties of the silicone bushes.I just tried using the wooden draughts pieces directly between plinth and mana glass but it just work out. I don't think it was as sleepy as it was when I was using bumpers only between plinth and mana glass, but it's definitely not as good as using the Addis pad combo between plinth and mana glass. The Addis pads really seem to like electromechanical stuff that sits on glass!
I also tried having Addis pads only between plinth and mana glass and although it didn't seem to introduce any softness, it just didn't sound as alive and airy as it does with the pad+bumper combo in place.
That's as far as experimentation goes, the Addis pad combo is staying put, and I'll be leaving the bushes alone as well. The deck is now the best front end I've ever had by a country mile so I'm just going to get on with playing records and having a good time.
In saying that, I might end up buying a fourth gel bush so that I can try four of the top halves beneath my 1210GR. I imagine that combo will involve Addis pads and perhaps bumpers and washers and nuts and bolts... but I'll leave that for another day
I have ordered and Addis pad to try under my small hard rubber feet. They are not standard but for better than the originals without a base board.
Unfortunately, I am severely limited as to the steps I can take to improve isolation.
The deck, without base board, currently sits on four small grey square stick on feet that are butted up to the corners of where the baseplate used to sit, and with a light pine coffee table as support.
It looks extremely neat but I want to try an Addis pad beneath those hard rubber feet.
I also considered a screw in each of the corner holes as a means of levelling the deck easier and to give a more rigid coupling to the coffee table but I am loathe. To damage the table and I don’t want a bodge in the lounge of our new home. Lol
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
Here’s the picture from my DIY thread.
My M5 thumbscrews came from eBay too, mild steel and about a pound each delivered.
WOW!
I really like the idea of those thumbscrews!
I’m gonna get me somma dem!
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
Good luck with the Addis pads. I found that some bumpers work better than others - the silicone ones I tried at first were rubbish as they were too soft and squigy. There also seems to be variation in results - I can only imagine different supporting structures have different effects on how the combo works. Like I say, it works great on mana glass, less so when placed on a mana board. But it's pretty cheap so I guess there's only one way to find out. Fingers crossed it works out for the best
ThanksGood luck with the Addis pads. I found that some bumpers work better than others - the silicone ones I tried at first were rubbish as they were too soft and squigy. There also seems to be variation in results - I can only imagine different supporting structures have different effects on how the combo works. Like I say, it works great on mana glass, less so when placed on a mana board. But it's pretty cheap so I guess there's only one way to find out. Fingers crossed it works out for the best
i had to order the Addis pad online and it won’t be here till next week so I will try them then.
Finally got around to attempting to fit the silicone mushrooms to my LP12, no dice. I had fitted my deck with a Vinyl Passion top plate, and the hangers are not welded to the plate but are bolted, as a consequence the nuts used to secure the hangers foul on the inner diameter of the silicone mushrooms since the inner diameter is quite a lot smaller than that of the Linn rubber gromets. In the end I fitted the InSoles whose inner diameter is similar to the Linn gromets and has clearance for the hanger nuts.
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
Interesting.
Good thing you managed to get your hands on some InSoles.
Did you actually remove the LINN springs? How does it sound?
Got any photos of the top-plate hangers you mentioned?
windhoek
The Phoolosopher
A couple of weeks down the line after installing the Taica mushrooms and here are my extended thoughts about their contribution to how the deck performs and how it all sounds.
Firstly, start-up is so much more assuring than it was before. It takes a far gentler nudge to get going and then once it's up to speed, which seems to happen much quicker now that only a fraction of the drive is lost to vertical energy, it receives the needle and records while the platter is spinning with confidence or rather, you feel you can drop the needle and swap records while the platter is spinning with confidence. It's just so damn assuring!
What's more, platter speed seems more stable from the word go. I've ordered a Valhalla Electronics Zeus power supply, which should see the platter spinning even more accurately, but the mushrooms certainly seem to have made an impact in this regard as well. Indeed, when it comes to performance, it just feels like the deck is now in the Goldilocks zone, almost like it's how it should have been performing in the first place... almost like it's how it should have been made in the first place.
As for how it sounds and whatnot, it still has that analogue warmth of old, perhaps even more so now, but it also sounds so much better and so much clearer. It even seems to be digging out more detail from records than it ever did before. Maybe I'm hearing extra stuff by virtue of the fact that the bass bloom has been diminished and so the mids seem to stand out more by comparison. I'm not sure. I just know it's giving me a far better presentation with more detail and nuance. It's also more involving, much more involving. I mean, once you put a record on you just want to hear all of it. It's all very compelling.
The caveat to mention is that I've pimped my ride with the Addis puck combo, which means there are four damping materials working together in series: two layers of Addis pads, a foam ice hockey puck (capped with a metal jar lid to distribute the load), two single Addis pads with a bumper on top and the Taica mushrooms under the hood. The combined effect is very musical, very organic, very involving... very perfect? Very reccomended!
Firstly, start-up is so much more assuring than it was before. It takes a far gentler nudge to get going and then once it's up to speed, which seems to happen much quicker now that only a fraction of the drive is lost to vertical energy, it receives the needle and records while the platter is spinning with confidence or rather, you feel you can drop the needle and swap records while the platter is spinning with confidence. It's just so damn assuring!
What's more, platter speed seems more stable from the word go. I've ordered a Valhalla Electronics Zeus power supply, which should see the platter spinning even more accurately, but the mushrooms certainly seem to have made an impact in this regard as well. Indeed, when it comes to performance, it just feels like the deck is now in the Goldilocks zone, almost like it's how it should have been performing in the first place... almost like it's how it should have been made in the first place.
As for how it sounds and whatnot, it still has that analogue warmth of old, perhaps even more so now, but it also sounds so much better and so much clearer. It even seems to be digging out more detail from records than it ever did before. Maybe I'm hearing extra stuff by virtue of the fact that the bass bloom has been diminished and so the mids seem to stand out more by comparison. I'm not sure. I just know it's giving me a far better presentation with more detail and nuance. It's also more involving, much more involving. I mean, once you put a record on you just want to hear all of it. It's all very compelling.
The caveat to mention is that I've pimped my ride with the Addis puck combo, which means there are four damping materials working together in series: two layers of Addis pads, a foam ice hockey puck (capped with a metal jar lid to distribute the load), two single Addis pads with a bumper on top and the Taica mushrooms under the hood. The combined effect is very musical, very organic, very involving... very perfect? Very reccomended!
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
A couple of weeks down the line after installing the Taica mushrooms and here are my extended thoughts about their contribution to how the deck performs and how it all sounds.
Firstly, start-up is so much more assuring than it was before. It takes a far gentler nudge to get going and then once it's up to speed, which seems to happen much quicker now that only a fraction of the drive is lost to vertical energy, it receives the needle and records while the platter is spinning with confidence or rather, you feel you can drop the needle and swap records while the platter is spinning with confidence. It's just so damn assuring!
What's more, platter speed seems more stable from the word go. I've ordered a Valhalla Electronics Zeus power supply, which should see the platter spinning even more accurately, but the mushrooms certainly seem to have made an impact in this regard as well. Indeed, when it comes to performance, it just feels like the deck is now in the Goldilocks zone, almost like it's how it should have been performing in the first place... almost like it's how it should have been made in the first place.
As for how it sounds and whatnot, it still has that analogue warmth of old, perhaps even more so now, but it also sounds so much better and so much clearer. It even seems to be digging out more detail from records than it ever did before. Maybe I'm hearing extra stuff by virtue of the fact that the bass bloom has been diminished and so the mids seem to stand out more by comparison. I'm not sure. I just know it's giving me a far better presentation with more detail and nuance. It's also more involving, much more involving. I mean, once you put a record on you just want to hear all of it. It's all very compelling.
The caveat to mention is that I've pimped my ride with the Addis puck combo, which means there are four damping materials working together in series: two layers of Addis pads, a foam ice hockey puck (capped with a metal jar lid to distribute the load), two single Addis pads with a bumper on top and the Taica mushrooms under the hood. The combined effect is very musical, very organic, very involving... very perfect? Very reccomended!
Bravo Derek!
That's probably the best description summary I've read, of how going springless with the silicone mushrooms have improved the sound of your LP12 - without sacrificing the precious LP12-ness of it all.
I'm sure the mushroom detractors will somehow conclude that your deck is sounding good despite losing the springs, but for my money, I think you have well and truly nailed it here.
Sit back and bask in the glory of the music, comfortable in the knowledge that your last LP12 suspension tune-up is behind you.
Enjoy!
SONDEKNZ
Kiwi, now living in Hangzhou, CHINA
Martin,
I have been to the VP site - and viewed their top-plate - and tried to understand what it was that obstructed your mushroom surgery.
I just cannot see the obstruction.
I have copied the diagram of how best to install the silicone mushrooms - below. Is this how you attempted the install?
PLEASE NOTE: This diagram shows the LP12 in its normal playback position. The dark-grey area is the sub-chassis. There is NO silicone mushroom sitting above the sub-chassis, closer to the top-plate. The entire mushroom - whether female is on top or below - needs to be below the sub-chassis, to form a complete silicone "bush" that provides suspension.
Anyone who has half a mushroom above the sub-chassis, will NOT be hearing their LP12 at is very best!
Just sayin'...
Still assessing the sound, it's hard to compare without side by side decks, but certainly the deck sounds a little more dynamic, with drum hits for example being more impactful and bass lines a little clearer. I need to do some additional listening this weekend.
I did remove the Linn springs and grommets. Unfortunately I have no pictures of the top plate hangers, but they have a washer and two nuts on each post to provide locking. Switching to a single slim nut and using Loctite to secure may be an option if I want to disassemble the deck again.
I did place the silicone donuts as your illustration shows above, I am using a Greenstreet aluminum sub chassis so perhaps the clearance between the top plate and the chassis is smaller ? I am loathed to disassemble the deck again but perhaps it's worth another try since opinion appears to be that the silicone donuts prove some improvement over John's original Insoles.
I think what was happening is as below:
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