Taica silicone mushrooms for LP12

[windhoek]

Installation was a doddle as suggested. In saying that, it wasn't until I removed the first spring that I realised the nuts that come with the springs are locking nuts so I had to walk over to my local hardware store and buy a packet of M5 nuts and bolts; seeing as I only needed 3 nuts, I haggled the price down from £3 to £2.50, couldn't help myself.

Anyway, once I was sorted for nuts, I put the washer on and used two nuts for extra locking security without having to apply much torque. I then replaced the other two springs before levelling the armboard as best I could. It was a little weird putting the outer platter on and not see or feel it sinking down. Very weird indeed!

I'm now playing Nice Work by Carol Kidd and just as with the platter drop, putting a record on and not see the whole thing bob furiously up and down is really strange! Anyway, as for how it sounds, it's very similar tonally speaking. I think it still sounds like an LP12 but with improved pitch stability and perhaps a little less bass bloom.

I'm gonna have something to eat as I've been on the go for a while but I'll play some records later and see how it goes.

EDIT: I forgot to say I just used the main section of the bush as that seemed like the more straightforward fitting option.

 

[Isobarik]

Installation was a doddle as suggested. In saying that, it wasn't until I removed the first spring that I realised the nuts that come with the springs are locking nuts so I had to walk over to my local hardware store and buy a packet of M5 nuts and bolts; seeing as I only needed 3 nuts, I haggled the price down from £3 to £2.50, couldn't help myself.

Anyway, once I was sorted for nuts, I put the washer on and used two nuts for extra locking security without having to apply much torque. I then replaced the other two springs before levelling the armboard as best I could. It was a little weird putting the outer platter on and not see or feel it sinking down. Very weird indeed!

I'm now playing Nice Work by Carol Kidd and just as with the platter drop, putting a record on and not see the whole thing bob furiously up and down is really strange! Anyway, as for how it sounds, it's very similar tonally speaking. I think it still sounds like an LP12 but with improved pitch stability and perhaps a little less bass bloom.

I'm gonna have something to eat as I've been on the go for a while but I'll play some records later and see how it goes.

Brilliant! Yes a cinch to implicate Derek.

 

[windhoek]

I played some records last night as well as this morning and I'm pleased to say the same tonal character and improved pitch stability I heard yesterday remains. However, the one thing I noticed yesterday that I didn't mention was a loss of attack or involvement. It's like the deck had become a little shy, reserved or perhaps understated in presentation as opposed to delivering the lively, imaginative presentation I'd become used to. I even found myself turning up the volume to try and force some excitement into things, but it just didn't work. It just got louder. I'd hoped that things would improve with some settling in time but I'm afraid it hasn't.

For example, when the sax first comes in on Freddie Freeloader it should blow your socks off. It's just so full of energy and dynamism. But with the gel bushes in place, it came across as, well, a little shy, reserved or perhaps understated. It was the same when I played it yesterday and the same when I played it this morning. It was also the same with everything I played - everything just sounded a little shy, reserved or perhaps understated. If that's the trade off for pitch stability and a slight reduction of bass bloom, then that's a trade off too far for me.

I was almost resigned to sending out a distress call for help, to undo the modification and restore the deck to its previous state, when I remembered a little something called the Addis pad combo. I already had a set of bumpers affixed to the bottom of the deck so I thought I'd try placing two pads beneath each of the four bumpers and see if that did anything to help with the somewhat limp presentation.

As soon as the needle dropped at the start of Freddie Freeloader the answer was obvious - the Addis pad combo... like a good dose of Viagra, had cured the problem of a flaccid presentation and had given the deck mighty wood and then some!

I've since played a few records and the results are exactly the same - the LP12 magic is back!

So where does that leave things? The gel bushes are staying put and the LP12 is almost certainly going to be my preferred if not sole deck going forward. I might keep the 1210GR, I don't know. It plays 45s at the push of a button so there's that. But even so, I do enjoy what it has to offer so maybe keeping both decks is okay. I guess I'm fortunate to have choices.

As for the gel bushes and that loss of attack, drive and energy, if any of you guys have noticed anything like that since installing the bushes, I reckon placing the Addis pad combo beneath your deck has got to be a must. Fwiw, my deck is on mana and the Addis pad combo always seems to work best between mana and whatever component or speakers. On wooden surfaces, its effects aren't quite as striking.

On the topic of it being a combo, it might well be the silicone bushes are a better compliment to the pads than the EVA bumpers I've been using so maybe things will improve again if I were to remove the bumpers and just sit the corners of the deck on sets of pads. In saying that, my lovely old rosewood plinth is slightly warped so it might not sit properly on pads alone without the compressibility of the bumpers to soak up the small difference in height at the corners. But that's a thought for another day. Today is all about celebrating as I've ended up achieving really good and highly enjoyable results. Result!

 

[Fergus]

However, the one thing I noticed yesterday that I didn't mention was a loss of attack or involvement. It's like the deck had become a little shy, reserved or perhaps understated in presentation as opposed to delivering the lively, imaginative presentation I'd become used to.

Do you think that it might have been different if you had used the complete silicone assembly and not just the “mushroom”? There might be too much contact area between it and the sub chassis.

 

[Isobarik]

I played some records last night as well as this morning and I'm pleased to say the same tonal character and improved pitch stability I heard yesterday remains. However, the one thing I noticed yesterday that I didn't mention was a loss of attack or involvement. It's like the deck had become a little shy, reserved or perhaps understated in presentation as opposed to delivering the lively, imaginative presentation I'd become used to. I even found myself turning up the volume to try and force some excitement into things, but it just didn't work. It just got louder. I'd hoped that things would improve with some settling in time but I'm afraid it hasn't.

For example, when the sax first comes in on Freddie Freeloader it should blow your socks off. It's just so full of energy and dynamism. But with the gel bushes in place, it came across as, well, a little shy, reserved or perhaps understated. It was the same when I played it yesterday and the same when I played it this morning. It was also the same with everything I played - everything just sounded a little shy, reserved or perhaps understated. If that's the trade off for pitch stability and a slight reduction of bass bloom, then that's a trade off too far for me.

I was almost resigned to sending out a distress call for help, to undo the modification and restore the deck to its previous state, when I remembered a little something called the Addis pad combo. I already had a set of bumpers affixed to the bottom of the deck so I thought I'd try placing two pads beneath each of the four bumpers and see if that did anything to help with the somewhat limp presentation.

As soon as the needle dropped at the start of Freddie Freeloader the answer was obvious - the Addis pad combo... like a good dose of Viagra, had cured the problem of a flaccid presentation and had given the deck mighty wood and then some!

I've since played a few records and the results are exactly the same - the LP12 magic is back!

So where does that leave things? The gel bushes are staying put and the LP12 is almost certainly going to be my preferred if not sole deck going forward. I might keep the 1210GR, I don't know. It plays 45s at the push of a button so there's that. But even so, I do enjoy what it has to offer so maybe keeping both decks is okay. I guess I'm fortunate to have choices.

As for the gel bushes and that loss of attack, drive and energy, if any of you guys have noticed anything like that since installing the bushes, I reckon placing the Addis pad combo beneath your deck has got to be a must. Fwiw, my deck is on mana and the Addis pad combo always seems to work best between mana and whatever component or speakers. On wooden surfaces, its effects aren't quite as striking.

On the topic of it being a combo, it might well be the silicone bushes are a better compliment to the pads than the EVA bumpers I've been using so maybe things will improve again if I were to remove the bumpers and just sit the corners of the deck on sets of pads. In saying that, my lovely old rosewood plinth is slightly warped so it might not sit properly on pads alone without the compressibility of the bumpers to soak up the small difference in height at the corners. But that's a thought for another day. Today is all about celebrating as I've ended up achieving really good and highly enjoyable results. Result!

A good write up Derek, I'll give my LP12 a spin tonight. See if I get the same results.

 

[windhoek]

Do you think that it might have been different if you had used the complete silicone assembly and not just the “mushroom”? There might be too much contact area between it and the sub chassis.

That's a good question. I just had a look at the top collar of the bush and it looks like you'd still end up the same amount of contact area, give or a little, once the load was applied.

 

[Fergus]

That's a good question. I just had a look at the top collar of the bush and it looks like you'd still end up the same amount of contact area, give or a little, once the load was applied.

I’m only going by the diagrams. Maybe someone who has used the complete assembly will comment.

 

[Jazzer]

That is very interesting to hear.
It is quite difficult for me to say whether I have lost any dynamic attack, even though that is one of my most appreciated traits of a system.

Since moving into a new house last January, my main speakers have been changed from Epos Es11 to Monitor Audio silver 200 7g, and the turntable now sits in the lounge on a light coffee table instead of its dedicated HiFi rack.
All for cosmetic reasons, but the MA speakers are gorgeous to look at and they do sound good.
I still use my old highly modified Musical Fidelity B1 to drive them.

I would describe the sound as much more grown up and bigger than the system at my old house.
However, my wife is almost always home and she cannot tolerate even moderately loud listening, sadly
So, while the LP12 looks great and discrete in its new position, it is hard to tell if the system as a whole still, sounds as good as my old one used to.

I have the old System set up in the garage with my old Linn Axis with no suspension and a Rega planet mark one as sources but with a Denon amplifier I bought cheap off eBay.
It sounds tremendous and possibly better than It ever did but it’s hardly the best place to spend hours listening.

I can say that the LP12 appears to be no worse for the Taica mushrooms and even a little clearer with vocals perhaps, but with hand on heart I cannot say that I have played my favourite dynamic tracks at a decent volume on it.
It is likely to be some time before I reach any conclusions about that aspect, I think.

 

[windhoek]

That is very interesting to hear.
It is quite difficult for me to say whether I have lost any dynamic attack, even though that is one of my most appreciated traits of a system.

Since moving into a new house last January, my main speakers have been changed from Epos Es11 to Monitor Audio silver 200 7g, and the turntable now sits in the lounge on a light coffee table instead of its dedicated HiFi rack.
All for cosmetic reasons, but the MA speakers are gorgeous to look at and they do sound good.
I still use my old highly modified Musical Fidelity B1 to drive them.

I would describe the sound as much more grown up and bigger than the system at my old house.
However, my wife is almost always home and she cannot tolerate even moderately loud listening, sadly
So, while the LP12 looks great and discrete in its new position, it is hard to tell if the system as a whole still, sounds as good as my old one used to.

I have the old System set up in the garage with my old Linn Axis with no suspension and a Rega planet mark one as sources but with a Denon amplifier I bought cheap off eBay.
It sounds tremendous and possibly better than It ever did but it’s hardly the best place to spend hours listening.

I can say that the LP12 appears to be no worse for the Taica mushrooms and even a little clearer with vocals perhaps, but with hand on heart I cannot say that I have played my favourite dynamic tracks at a decent volume on it.
It is likely to be some time before I reach any conclusions about that aspect, I think.

That's the thing about hifi: change one thing and you change everything, including the supporting structures that we place our gear and speakers on. I noticed the softer presentation pretty much straight away along with the more positive attributes. I did wonder whether the bushes had simply made the deck a bit less shouty or more gentlemanly and refined, rather but however you describe it, it meant a noticeable loss in sheer involvement.

It could be that the mana makes the deck work on a sort of marmite basis, as in it accentuates the good and the bad of a given configuration, I'm not entirely sure. But the Addis pad combo certainly turned it around completely.

If you haven't noticed the softness I'm talking about then you probably don't have a soft presentation, or perhaps not to the same extent. My deck has a pre-Cirkus bearing which is said to be more lively or even a little feral compared to the Cirkus and Karousel. Does your deck have a Cirkus or Karousel bearing? That might be why a more grown up presentation is what you're getting. If it's a pre-Cirkus bearing and it's sounding grown up then maybe the deck could benefit from sitting on an alternative structure and/or have the Addis pad combo put beneath it.

That said, if you like it the way it is, then don't change a thing

 

[Jazzer]

That's the thing about hifi: change one thing and you change everything, including the supporting structures that we place our gear and speakers on. I noticed the softer presentation pretty much straight away along with the more positive attributes. I did wonder whether the bushes had simply made the deck a bit less shouty or more gentlemanly and refined, rather but however you describe it, it meant a noticeable loss in sheer involvement.

It could be that the mana makes the deck work on a sort of marmite basis, as in it accentuates the good and the bad of a given configuration, I'm not entirely sure. But the Addis pad combo certainly turned it around completely.

If you haven't noticed the softness I'm talking about then you probably don't have a soft presentation, or perhaps not to the same extent. My deck has a pre-Cirkus bearing which is said to be more lively or even a little feral compared to the Cirkus and Karousel. Does your deck have a Cirkus or Karousel bearing? That might be why a more grown up presentation is what you're getting. If it's a pre-Cirkus bearing and it's sounding grown up then maybe the deck could benefit from sitting on an alternative structure and/or have the Addis pad combo put beneath it.

That said, if you like it the way it is, then don't change a thing

Mine is pre cirkus, like yours.
It has only sounded grown up since moving here and pairing with the MA speakers.
At my old place, via the B1 and Epos 11s it took no prisoners lol.
I used to describe it as crash bang wallop, in your face and very live.
Sometimes shouty too but I do use an Ittok.

The set up I had in my old place would not work here.
The rack looks very 80s and the ES11s would probably not fit, on their dedicated stands in the gaps that we have to work with.
It’s very much a compromise set up tbh.
I could put the LP12 out in the garage and try it there but tbh it looks just right where it is and it’s really a case of making the best of it.
A wall shelf is a no go on my cavity walls either.
The HiFi was not a priority when we moved to this lovely but somewhat smaller place, apart from the ridiculously big garage. lol

 

[Isobarik]

Just wondering? My LP12 is sited on a Audiotech turntable shelf. I might site it on one of my racks to see if the LP12 can play a record without it bouncing all over the place when I walk into my living room! That will be a test for the mushrooms me thinks!

 

[Chris]

Nowadays, no two Linns are the same outside the fanboyz on Facebook hence all our questions are rhetorical. Do YOU like it ? or what have YOU lost/gained with the latest mod ? assuming any of us are capable of defining the change, in words.

James said that he liked the gel mushrooms more than the Insoles and either of them over the springs. I like my insoles but would accept that at first they sounded even better if I upped the volume a tad. Then I went back to my DIY Addis mat but this time with Linn felt on top and found that I didn´t need to up the volume - the bumper pads did it for me, making individual instruments stand out more because of improved dynamics. Now Jazzer and Seyles question whether or not to use both parts of the Taicas. I fitted some Taicas to a mate´s Linn and used both parts because it seemed more similar to my insoles which can only be used one way up with the ledge making a slight friction fit with the subchassis hole just like happens with the Insoles but I didn´t listen to the deck and it wasn´t mine anyway and he has a Hercules and I have a Norton, his cartridge is an AT-33 and mine is an A&RP77 blah, blah, blah..

When/if I try my mushrooms on my deck shall I fit the ledge into the hole on the subchassis because I feel it centres the bolts a bit better.
Besides I have been farting around with the height of my speaker bases in the meanwhile and who knows if my new mat is a permanent feature and what if I go back to a Linn belt instead of my blue one (no chance)

I fear we are going to miss Nirvana again because without knowing, it´s already inside us and the How ? doesn´t really matter - Besides, it´s never the same twice unless you are unlucky. and boy oh boy, that first time !!!!!!!! (Sorry, have just listened to Morph the Cat by Fagen - have you heard the guitar work on "Brite Nightgown" ? I hadn´t and have only had the LP since it came out in 2006 and who is Wayne Krantz..

 

[Jazzer]

Nowadays, no two Linns are the same outside the fanboyz on Facebook hence all our questions are rhetorical. Do YOU like it ? or what have YOU lost/gained with the latest mod ? assuming any of us are capable of defining the change, in words.

James said that he liked the gel mushrooms more than the Insoles and either of them over the springs. I like my insoles but would accept that at first they sounded even better if I upped the volume a tad. Then I went back to my DIY Addis mat but this time with Linn felt on top and found that I didn´t need to up the volume - the bumper pads did it for me, making individual instruments stand out more because of improved dynamics. Now Jazzer and Seyles question whether or not to use both parts of the Taicas. I fitted some Taicas to a mate´s Linn and used both parts because it seemed more similar to my insoles which can only be used one way up with the ledge making a slight friction fit with the subchassis hole just like happens with the Insoles but I didn´t listen to the deck and it wasn´t mine anyway and he has a Hercules and I have a Norton, his cartridge is an AT-33 and mine is an A&RP77 blah, blah, blah..

When/if I try my mushrooms on my deck shall I fit the ledge into the hole on the subchassis because I feel it centres the bolts a bit better.
Besides I have been farting around with the height of my speaker bases in the meanwhile and who knows if my new mat is a permanent feature and what if I go back to a Linn belt instead of my blue one (no chance)

I fear we are going to miss Nirvana again because without knowing, it´s already inside us and the How ? doesn´t really matter - Besides, it´s never the same twice unless you are unlucky. and boy oh boy, that first time !!!!!!!! (Sorry, have just listened to Morph the Cat by Fagen - have you heard the guitar work on "Brite Nightgown" ? I hadn´t and have only had the LP since it came out in 2006 and who is Wayne Krantz..

What are the Addis pads and what makes them special?
I keep hearing about them

 

[Chris]

What are the Addis pads and what makes them special?
I keep hearing about them

 

[windhoek]

The Addis pads are pieces of Addis kitchen sink mat from B&M that year off and put under your equipment and speakers. The Addis pad combo is what you get when you put one of these bumpers on top of the pads.

 

[Jazzer]

The Addis pads are pieces of Addis kitchen sink mat from B&M that year off and put under your equipment and speakers. The Addis pad combo is what you get when you put one of these bumpers on top of the pads.

Thanks for that but I can’t find the exact thing anywhere.
The closest one I can find on B and M is clear and presumably the material is crucial to whether it works or not.
The Dial things are not too disimilar to what I used to support the top plate of my now suspensionless Axis, except I have run out of them now.

 

[Chris]

They sre Derek's contribution to western civilisation, ,bless 'im. A prime example of a mispent youth, he meantto say that they tear off (not year). If you fancy a good laugh just read the whole thread on the subject but at no point should you stop believing. They really do work in a black magicky , inexplicable sort of way. We now call him ‘the equaliser’ but noone cares why, especially the Addis shareholders nor the B&M check out ladies. I live in Spain, have just one bath and am on my third bath mat in a few months.

 

[windhoek]

Thanks for that but I can’t find the exact thing anywhere.
The closest one I can find on B and M is clear and presumably the material is crucial to whether it works or not.
The Dial things are not too disimilar to what I used to support the top plate of my now suspensionless Axis, except I have run out of them now.

The clear ones are the same as the grey ones so either will do fine. And as Chris says, they just tear off, not year off lol

 

[Jazzer]

The clear ones are the same as the grey ones so either will do fine. And as Chris says, they just tear off, not year off lol

Thanks….

 

[windhoek]

I just listened to Boys and Girls by Bryan Ferry there and I reckon my newly pimped LP12 blows the old one out of the water! Indeed, if the old sprung one could be said to be a sail boat that bobbed along nicely in harmony with the rhythm and melody of the waves, the pimped up one is like a flying catamaran where the presentation, with all that drive and energy, has gone airborne... and you're going along for the ride!