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Suggestions for first vinyl rig . . .

paskinn said:
I like, and use, an SME turntable, so that's my preference. For £5000 you could get a new SME 10 with matching SME arm and a decent cartridge. There's a reason they are desired all around the world.
Having said that, you might not like the sound (all so personal). If it were me, I'd start by auditioning an SME 10 and a similarly expensive Linn LP12. That gives you two reference points, which you can then use as a sort of 'compass' as you hear other stuff. Remember that you may want service and factory support at some point. Michell are also superb at that...look for the firms with a long history. That's where the value lies. So, for me, Linn. Michell and SME.
Good luck, and be aware that you are at risk of having your love of digital sound seriously tested. Good analogue is awesome.
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Thanks for the suggestions paskinn. I will take a closer look at SME, they do seem to be well regarded. I have read that the LP12 take quite so skill in setting up correctly, so that may not be for me.

And yes, that is one thing I am very very interested to test out, the whole digital versus vinyl thing!
 
MVV said:
If you only have a hundred or so LPs go the Rega RP6 route. It is simple and gets you a long way towards the top end for comparatively little outlay. Diminishing returns and all that. I currently run a WT Amadeus GTA with a Cadenza blue and someday plan on the RP6 with a good MM just to simplify matters. After a couple of days I won't notice the WT has gone; this caper is, after all, mostly a load of nonsense that keeps silly old men from weeding the garden.
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I hear what you're saying MVV, but as I can't stand gardening, I'm all in!!

The Rega option does seem to be solidifying as a good starting point.
 
Foot Tapper said:
Hi Blade1001
Even at this rarified level, there is still lots of choice. You may care to look at a current thread running about the Rokxan Xerxes turntable, in which I posted my own experiences of auditioning a Linn LP12, a Roksan Xerxes and a Nottingham Analogue Hyperspace. The differences between them were considerable.

There are relatively few dealers who can allow you to make such back-to-back comparisons.

May I suggest that you give Audio Republic a call in a couple of weeks' time (they are on holiday overseas for the next 3 weeks)? They stock Linn, Rega, Roksan, SME, Michell and NAS turntables.

If you read the Roksan Xerxes thread, then you will know that I enjoy the LP12 and the Xerxes, but your tastes may be very different, so it really is best to audition them for yourself. Do not be swayed by single brand protagonists, however assertively they write!

Best regards, FT
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Thanks for the reply Foot Tapper, Audio Republic are much closer to me than Walrus that was suggested earlier on, so that might be a good option.

I will try and find your thread and give your review a read. Don't worry, I am not swayed by reviews, I take them for what they are,and that includes 'commercial' ones in magazines etc - they are useful if establishing an approximate sound signature though, which is what I am trying to do here.
 
Vital said:
Again very much FWIW, I was rather taken by the original Roksan Xerxes I bought and sold here (it was a stop-gap while I awaited my 301).

Cracking deck, and if indicative of what the later decks are capable of I'd have them on my audition list.

If you can get a couple of decks at home at a time and whittle them down over a few days you might be in for a fun journey.

I should stress the importance of a RCM, and cleaning your old vinyl before making comparisons, assuming you'll be using your collection for demos. I think I'm right in saying that everyone who uses one is surprised at the massive improvements these can make to your old vinyl.
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Thanks Vital, yes, it should be a fun bit of exploration.

I will need to look into the RCM's a little more, with the combination of manual, automatic, various alcohol and enzyme base cleaning fluids and almost religious cleaning regimes that some user state, its almost as much of a mine field as selecting the actual TT rig!
 
topoxforddoc said:
OK, here’s my take on this.

Do you want a fit and forget option or are you an inveterate tweaker? With vinyl replay, you can twiddle to your heart’s content, if you wish. But not everyone either wants or is able to do that.


Fit and forget

new or modern:

TW-Acustic
Brinkmann
Acoustic Solid
SME
Rega RP10
Palmer
NA
VPI

vintage fit and forget:

Technics SP10
Garrard 301/401 (preferably rebuilt by someone like Audiograil, Bastin or Loricraft) in a decent plinth (slate or multilayer ply)
Thorens TD124

More fiddly - essentially any sprung TT will need more work than a solid plinth TT

Linn LP12
Michell Orbe/Gyro
PT
Roksan Xerxes

Look at the tonearm and cartridge together. Essentially a lower compliance cart will need a higher effective mass tonearm. Again, some tonearms are pretty much fit and forget. Some can take a while to set uop (eg unipivots like a Hadcock). Personally I have used a lot of carts and tonearms over the last 35 years (inc some very expensive MCs). My preference now is a Decca in a Hadcock, but I’m sure I will hear lots of dissenters at that suggestion.

Good luck

Charlie
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Thanks for excellent and comprehensive reply Charlie (and also exposing me to a new word - I had to look 'inveterate' up!).

I do like a bit of tweaking, but only a bit - messing with cables, isolation/coupling bits and bobs, room treatments etc, but I would want to avoid having a device so complex and tweakable that I would never be truly convinced I had managed to get it performing at its best. From what I have read, the LP12 appears to fall fairly firmly into that category, so that may not be for me.

I'm also a bit of a tech head,so the modern units, rightly or wrongly, appeal more than the vintage ones. So that first 'new and modern' 'fit and forget' list may be a good starting point. Have you experienced many of the decks in that list yourself?
 
If you like a small amount of tweaking, going down the Garrard 301/401 or Thorens 124 route may not only give you the best results sound-wise but also possibly a rather special pride of ownership. I went through a lot of modern and vintage TTs but once I got my 401 properly serviced, plinthed (in a double slate plinth) and loaded with a 12 inch PU7 tonearm, I cant see anything replacing it. If nothing else - I simply love looking at it. It's also likely to be an appreciating asset
But before you go down this route, you have to listen to a good (and I mean really well set up) idler drive TT to make sure you like the sound. Where are you based? You may find a PFMer near you with a proper set up who might host you
 
Blade1001 said:
Thanks Vital, yes, it should be a fun bit of exploration.

I will need to look into the RCM's a little more, with the combination of manual, automatic, various alcohol and enzyme base cleaning fluids and almost religious cleaning regimes that some user state, its almost as much of a mine field as selecting the actual TT rig!
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I'm sure there are several good ones. They vary in price enormously. I bought my VPI 16.5 "barely used" second hand for £450 and the results I get on noisy old vinyl is astounding. Obviously it fixes dirt issues, not scratches, but I was surprised what turns out to be dirt related noise. Personally I quite enjoy the (slow'ish) manual process - others find it a real bind.

However, as I say, I'm sure many RCMs are good. If you spot a second hand one of any of the major brands I suspect you'd be fine.

There was mention recently of a completely automated machine that costs around £2000+ - but apparently uses a marvellous ultrasonic cleaning technique. Hopefully someone will remember the actual model and post.

Oh, and buy some decent liners - I like these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0062KVSC6/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

Also consider sleeves to put the album in. If you go down this route once you've cleaned a record give it a new liner and outer sleeve and you'll know that one's done.

BTW if the above fills you with horror then perhaps TTs aren't for you. If it appeals to your inner OCD you may be doing the right thing!
 
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Blade1001 said:
And yes, that is one thing I am very very interested to test out, the whole digital versus vinyl thing!
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I currently have an Orbe SE on home demo (Tecnoarm, Sumiko Blackbird). A decent rig, though no doubt the vinylistas here will pick it to pieces. Anyway, I think it makes nice music (through my Devialet 170 and ML Montis).

I've been running some side-by-side trials of the same material on vinyl and digital. It seems to me that the replay equipment is less important than the quality of the medium: good vinyl disks sound better than poor digital ones and vice versa.

But it seems to me that the poor digital material is almost entirely rock/pop, whereas classical stuff is almost universally excellent on CD. So if I had to make a choice for replay of my music, I'd choose digital.

Your mileage will almost certainly vary ...
 
banjoman said:
If you like a small amount of tweaking, going down the Garrard 301/401 or Thorens 124 route may not only give you the best results sound-wise but also possibly a rather special pride of ownership. I went through a lot of modern and vintage TTs but once I got my 401 properly serviced, plinthed (in a double slate plinth) and loaded with a 12 inch PU7 tonearm, I cant see anything replacing it. If nothing else - I simply love looking at it. It's also likely to be an appreciating asset
But before you go down this route, you have to listen to a good (and I mean really well set up) idler drive TT to make sure you like the sound. Where are you based? You may find a PFMer near you with a proper set up who might host you
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Thanks for the suggestions banjoman, but on balance I think a more modern unit is for me rather than a vintage one.

I'm based in Nottingham, but TBH again I think it would be close to impossible for me to assess the performance of any particular source component without hearing it in my own system - for example I could listen to a particular piece and not like the sound, but it may be the speakers, or room resulting in the sound that I didn't have a preference for rather than the TT/source.
 
Vital said:
I'm sure there are several good ones. They vary in price enormously. I bought my VPI 16.5 "barely used" second hand for £450 and the results I get on noisy old vinyl is astounding. Obviously it fixes dirt issues, not scratches, but I was surprised what turns out to be dirt related noise. Personally I quite enjoy the (slow'ish) manual process - others find it a real bind.

However, as I say, I'm sure many RCMs are good. If you spot a second hand one of any of the major brands I suspect you'd be fine.

There was mention recently of a completely automated machine that costs around £2000+ - but apparently uses a marvellous ultrasonic cleaning technique. Hopefully someone will remember the actual model and post.

Oh, and buy some decent liners - I like these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0062KVSC6/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21

Also consider sleeves to put the album in. If you go down this route once you've cleaned a record give it a new liner and outer sleeve and you'll know that one's done.

BTW if the above fills you with horror then perhaps TTs aren't for you. If it appeals to your inner OCD you may be doing the right thing!
Click to expand...

Thanks Vital, I will take a look at the VPI's. I strongly suspect that the LP's I have inherited have never been cleaned since they were originally bought 40 or 50 years ago so they are going to need a proper deep clean before playing.

It does appeal to be honest, whilst I can't profess to being a huge fan of having to clean anything, there is quite a big attraction to cleaning up some of these LP I have, and spinning them up for the first time in possibly half a century. It appeals to the treasure hunting kid in me that I might discover some hidden gems, and reveal a bit of history.

I also like the idea of just putting an album on and letting it play through. The one downside I have found in having an all digital music collection, is the music is almost TOO accessible, I find myself flitting all too easily from track to track rather than playing an album through.

Its all good - I'm up for the vinyl challenge, and I can't go to my grave having never given it a good go!
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
mattgbell said:
I currently have an Orbe SE on home demo (Tecnoarm, Sumiko Blackbird). A decent rig, though no doubt the vinylistas here will pick it to pieces. Anyway, I think it makes nice music (through my Devialet 170 and ML Montis).

I've been running some side-by-side trials of the same material on vinyl and digital. It seems to me that the replay equipment is less important than the quality of the medium: good vinyl disks sound better than poor digital ones and vice versa.

But it seems to me that the poor digital material is almost entirely rock/pop, whereas classical stuff is almost universally excellent on CD. So if I had to make a choice for replay of my music, I'd choose digital.

Your mileage will almost certainly vary ...
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Thanks for your reply Matt, the Devialet is an unusual choice with a TT, does it not digitize all analogue signals, or was the the older unit? If that is the case is all your vinyl playback not subject to the quality of the A-D and D-A converters?

It is an interesting insight though, and I agree it does very much come down to the quality of the recording and mastering, and I imagine that applies as much to vinyl as it does to any other medium.

My findings are similar to yours, finding well mastered rock albums is more of a struggle than other genres for some reason (Dire Straits being one notable exception) - for example I've yet to find a Metallica album that doesn't sound horribly compressed.
 
Blade1001 said:
I'll take a look - never heard of those before!
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I was in the same position as you not long ago - couldn't afford the 5k so ended up with a second hand Rega Planar 2 for starters. All very well, but listening the to Gold Note decks in comparison was an eye opener. I've invested in Gold Notes digital gear (the Gold Note DAC-7) - and whilst at Audioflair listened to the Gold Note decks which were fantastic. It's just something different to think about instead of the usual Rega, Linn and Garrard - certainly worth an audition at least
 
beammeup said:
I was in the same position as you not long ago - couldn't afford the 5k so ended up with a second hand Rega Planar 2 for starters. All very well, but listening the to Gold Note decks in comparison was an eye opener. I've invested in Gold Notes digital gear (the Gold Note DAC-7) - and whilst at Audioflair listened to the Gold Note decks which were fantastic. It's just something different to think about instead of the usual Rega, Linn and Garrard - certainly worth an audition at least
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Thanks, yeah, I'll check them out.
 
So a quick question on the Brinkmann and SME TT's for anyone that has spent any time with them. How would you describe their sound, and how do they compare to the upper end Rega decks?
 
Pioneer PL-71. Looks good, doesn't need anything changing, ready to go out of the box, and of course sounds great.
 
Yomanze said:
Pioneer PL-71. Looks good, doesn't need anything changing, ready to go out of the box, and of course sounds great.
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Thanks for the suggestion - though I'm not really looking to get a vintage unit, it may be a good option if I decide to get a cheaper tester rig initially.
 
The best deck in your original list is the Clearaudio. Unfortunately few here have a clue how good they are - see the dismissive 'bling', 'like B&O' arguments, which conveniently forgets the quality of engineering and design that go into both B&O and Clearaudio, not to mention the superlative sound. The arm on the Concept is better than anything near the price, though it isn't the easiest to setup.

Nottingham Analogue is also a good choice, but note its design means you have to give the platter a shove to get it going.

Personally I'd go for a real cheapie, an old Thorens TD150, which can be had for not much money and will comfortably see off most of the vintage suggestions made on here so far.
 
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