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Subs n Lows

andyr said:
Yes, REW is a wonderful tool. šŸ‘



I appreciate that's the simple way to add a pair of subs ... but not running the Quads full range - ie. applying a HP filter - has two big advantages:

1. it reduces the distortion associated with LFs.

2. and it takes a lot of the load off the amp driving the mains ... allowing it to better service the remaining frequencies.
Click to expand...
Yes that might be the case with some speakers but not with Quads which have excellent bass for as low as it goes - 40Hz before dropping off fairly rapidly. One really wants to make the most of the excellent bass quality of the Quads. There might be a case for reducing bass on old Quads which are close to membrane failure. As for the amp, that really isnā€™t a problem with the one Iā€™m using!
 
Kev67 said:
Is an ABR driver something that would be beneficial to a sub? It is a feature of Cambridge Audio's Minx 301, in addition to it's 8" primary driver.


From the CA blurb.

"Minx X301 has an 8" (200mm) Auxiliary Bass Radiator (ABR) in addition to its primary powered driver. This means the subwoofer doesn't require an open box or enormous cabinet to give great bass. Instead, X301 produces a rich, warm bass from within its relatively modest proportions"
Click to expand...

A port in a small (relatively, powered subs are small and makes up that with loads of power) cabinet tuned to a low frequency will be big and makes a considerable part of the cabinets size. An ABR does the same job, but takes up virtually no space.
 
camverton said:
Yes that might be the case with some speakers but not with Quads which have excellent bass for as low as it goes - 40Hz before dropping off fairly rapidly. One really wants to make the most of the excellent bass quality of the Quads. There might be a case for reducing bass on old Quads which are close to membrane failure. As for the amp, that really isnā€™t a problem with the one Iā€™m using!
Click to expand...
In my case the speakers also go down to 40 Hz and the load isn't a problem at all for the amp and I really love the end result having the speakers full range. To my ears there is no apparent discontinuity or transition between the main speakers and the subwoofers. There is much more than a heftier bass... There is an increased "carnality" and realism and you can almost hear the venue's air in some recordings.

That being said, it could be interesting to test how it would sound if a HP filter was applied. But I really never got to investigate how it could be done easily and if something works to your liking why change it?
 
radamel said:
In my case the speakers also go down to 40 Hz and the load isn't a problem at all for the amp and I really love the end result having the speakers full range. To my ears there is no apparent discontinuity or transition between the main speakers and the subwoofers. There is much more than a heftier bass... There is an increased "carnality" and realism and you can almost hear the venue's air in some recordings.

That being said, it could be interesting to test how it would sound if a HP filter was applied. But I really never got to investigate how it could be done easily and if something works to your liking why change it?
Click to expand...

As someone who has chosen to, instead, roll off the mains ... I also like what I hear. :) And the 48dB L-R sub/mains XO also delivers zero discontinuation between the mains & the subs.

In my case ... it was a simple decision; a miniDSP nanoDIGI was already handling the XOs in my 3-way active mains (so the extra XO was no problem) - and I needed delay applied to the mains, as my subs are further away from ears than the mains are.
 
The decision on whether to high pass the mains largely depends on the quality of the lowest frequencies they can reproduce.

Having done it both ways umpteen times with many different main speakers and subs and different partnering equipment, ranging from miniDSP, Meridian, various AVRs etc, I donā€™t think it is something one can be dogmatic about. It all depends on the equipment and room as to which method works best and in some situations either will work equally well.

I find the first thing to look at is the low end FR of the mains on their own and how cleanly, or not, they roll off, and that can be down to the speaker, the room or a combination of the two. Some speakers attempt to go too low for their own good, in which case a high pass filter can be blessing. Using a crossover can give more scope for control but it isnā€™t always needed, but useful when it is.
 
The SVS Micro 3000 has been mentioned, and that's the sub I used when I had TAD ME1 standmounts. I only needed one of them in a room 4.5 x 4 metres, and I have slight bass-head tendencies. Integration into the rest of the audio signal was absolutely seamless. The SVS app is superb.
 
I have three Sonus Faber Cremona subs with separate sub amps (I bypassed the existing panel sub amps) and two 18" bespoke BMS driver heavily braced Birch ply subs. I can see at 20-30Hz the two 18" subs can give a lot more SPL and integrate easier with the system, they measure better, less distortion. So I did roll on the 12" SF subs later and ran the 18" higher. BUT I preferred seeing the 12" in play from 25Hz and running 5 subs sharing the load from 25-40Hz. The very high performing 18" subs sound better in my set up rolling off from 38Hz. I

Easy to say it measured better doing something different and the SF have much higher distortion at 25Hz, but remove that and lift the 18"'s adjust levels and get a better graph but doesnt sound as good !
 

SVS 3000 Micro Subwoofer​

What do we reckon to this sub? Certainly meets my criteria for being fairly small. I reckon I could perhaps sell a few bits and bobs of hifi gear to find the extra 2 or 300 hundred pounds they are over my budget. Also looks like this goes a bit cheaper 2nd hand or refurbed on ebay.

petertyson.co.uk

SVS 3000 Micro Subwoofer

Finally a micro which can compete with larger reference subwoofers! The 3000 Micro has achieved a sound which others have a failed to create. Despite the cabinet only being 10 inches, this innovative little subwoofer delivers rich sub-tones and will easily integrate into your current sound system.
petertyson.co.uk petertyson.co.uk




Subwoofer Specs:​

  • Dimensions (including grilles): 10.9ā€ (278mm) H X 11.7ā€ (297mm) W X 10.7ā€ (271mm) D
  • Weight: 22.5lbs (10.2kg)
  • Packaged Dimensions: 13.9ā€ (353mm) H X 15.4ā€ (390mm) W X 15.4ā€ (390mm) D
  • Packaged Weight: 26.7lbs (12.1kg)
  • Dual opposing 8-inch active drivers designed acoustically and electrically in parallel
  • 800-watt RMS, 2,500-watt peak Sledge STA-800D amplifier with fully discrete MOSFET output
  • Rear-mounted internal amplifier with Intelligent Control Interface (ICI)
  • High-end Piano Gloss Black and Piano Gloss White finish options
  • Screw-in rubber feet
  • Structurally reinforced MDF cabinet construction

Driver Specs:​

  • Dual opposing 8-inch drivers designed electrically and mechanically in parallel for massive output from and a sonically inert cabinet, and ultra-low system vibration even at maximum output levels
  • Precisely tuned overhung motor configuration for precise woofer control at all drive levels
  • Proprietary injection-molded NBR surround built for extreme-excursion and longevity at reference playback levels
  • Total Excursion (each driver): 24mm Xmax, 37mm Xmech.
  • 1100 aluminum single piece cone and junction provide excellent stiffness and a lightweight moving mass with optimized thermal conduction.
  • High-current 4-layer copper voice coil winding minimizes distortion and power compression, while providing effective heat dissipation and tuned magnetics for accuracy at high excursion.
  • Powerful proprietary ferrite motor system generates high-flux-density magnetic fields to drive room-filling sound pressure levels with pinpoint transient speed.
  • Precision machining for motor and narrow tolerance suspension parts maintain control and linearity at full excursion
  • 6061 aluminum shorting ring improves linearity of magnetics and reduces distortion and gap inductance
  • High-temperature 5025-H18 aluminum former/bobbin
  • 5-inch composite poly-cotton extreme-linear-excursion spider
  • Dual 24-strand plated copper leads
  • High-performance oversized Y30 Ferrite magnet motor
  • Top plate assembly with low carbon 1010 steel completes the driverā€™s precision magnetic circuit
  • Oversized low carbon 1010 steel U-yoke for maximum cooling
  • Dual 8-inch baskets with FEA optimized powder-coated frames for maximum rigidity, thermal conductivity, and mechanical damping

Amplifier Specs:​

  • Effortless on-demand power from 800-watt RMS, 2,500-watt peak Sledge STA-800DM amplifier with fully-discrete MOSFET output
  • High-efficiency Class-D switching topology with massive 25-amp 600-volt MOSFETs results in ample current, vanishing distortion and excellent linearity to generate massive low-frequency output with pinpoint accuracy
  • High-resolution 50MHz Analog Devices Audio DSP with double precision 56-bit filtering industry best processing power for advanced control and pristine output
  • User adjustable settings for system performance optimization: low pass filter, phase, polarity, room gain, and three parametric equalizers
  • Groundbreaking SVS subwoofer DSP and Bluetooth smartphone control app for iOS, Android and Amazon devices allow custom tuning and user presets for every room and system
  • Stereo RCA input and output with ultra-wide input voltage for consumer and professional audio applications
  • Rear panel Intelligent Control Interface (ICI) user interface with blue-LED light bar display and easy push-button controls
  • Auto/On and 3-12V AC/DC trigger for Maximum Installation Convenience
  • Input impedance 16 kā„¦ (unbalanced RCA)
  • Environmentally-friendly 0.5-watt low-standby-power consumption
  • RoHS compliant, lead-free construction, world-wide safety certifications
 
peachathome said:
The SVS Micro 3000 has been mentioned, and that's the sub I used when I had TAD ME1 standmounts. I only needed one of them in a room 4.5 x 4 metres, and I have slight bass-head tendencies. Integration into the rest of the audio signal was absolutely seamless. The SVS app is superb.
Click to expand...
Nice one. I didn't see your post before I posted mine lol.

Did you use it for music, cinema or both?

I would only be using a sub for music, and I'd mainly be looking for the sub to improve the treble and midrange sounds as I have enough bass grunt already from my amp and speakers.
 
I used it for music only. The ME1s made a decent job of rendering bass, but needed some back up.

I had the bigger SVS 3000, but in the flesh it was too big for our living room. I swapped it for the Micro, and was highly impressed. I donā€™t have it any more, as I part exchanged the ME1s for floorstanders.
 
Funds tight DIY with Bucket , old drum kits or Tyres with a Class D plate/Bash amp

Hidden in wall or On wall options if floor space if limited , Hidden from view

Just finished my 9.1.6 Atmos system with 4 sets of Dual 15s driven by a 8 x1000w channel Ottocanali 8K4 DSP
hitting Sub 10hz with Lots of headroom

blob

3000_inwall_lifestyle.jpg

Powersoft-Ottocanali-4K4-gebraucht-1-1-1000x1000.webp
 
Even small subs are hideous and difficult to accommodate, but I do use one most of the time.
 
Alex S said:
Even small subs are hideous and difficult to accommodate, but I do use one most of the time.
Click to expand...

This one is designed to go under the sofa:

www.sigbergaudio.no

Subwoofer small INKOGNITO high end premium sealed 10 / 12 inch Sigberg Audio Trinnov Waveforming

A small subwoofer that outperform the bass of high-end floorstanders. Flexible placement, high end bass, made for music, made in norway. Supports on-wall mounting - Perfect as a Trinnov Waveforming Technology subwoofer
www.sigbergaudio.no www.sigbergaudio.no
 
tuga said:
This one is designed to go under the sofa:

www.sigbergaudio.no

Subwoofer small INKOGNITO high end premium sealed 10 / 12 inch Sigberg Audio Trinnov Waveforming

A small subwoofer that outperform the bass of high-end floorstanders. Flexible placement, high end bass, made for music, made in norway. Supports on-wall mounting - Perfect as a Trinnov Waveforming Technology subwoofer
www.sigbergaudio.no www.sigbergaudio.no
Click to expand...
Considering that sub's size it won't be easy to find a sofa that would allow it to go under. Even the smaller 10" one needs almost a 20 cm clearance.
 
radamel said:
Considering that sub's size it won't be easy to find a sofa that would allow it to go under. Even the smaller 10' one needs almost a 20 cm clearance.
Click to expand...
Well spotted. The 10" model is 185mm tall and just about fits under our sofa. I could add some felt pads to provide a few more mm of clearance.
In my case it would more easily fit vertically behind the sofa.
 
Paddy said:
Yamaha NS2000, Two REL studio iii's and a pair of Wilson Benesch Torus infrasonic generators, miniDSP, Trinnov Amethyst and for extra fun, a pair of Crowsen actuators. Took some figuring out šŸ˜„
Click to expand...
I'm intrigued/confused why you need a miniDSP of you have a Trinnov at your disposal?? The Trinnov is a very impressive piece of kit IMHO.
 
The Amethyst is limited to four channels rather than the 16 or more from the Altitudes. MiniDSP 2x4 for the four subs presented as pairs to the Trinnov. A second miniDSP for the actuators
 
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