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Streaming is inferior to redbook CD playback?

Cd players for me also!
Some of them sound best with their own analog out, especially the multibit ones.
The story that lossless rips are superior because there are no moving parts etc, is bullshit, people are just too lazy to change cds..
30 years old cd players with ancient dac chips, sound better than modern high end dacs.
We just forgot how to make them, or we don't care, you can stream, is good enough..
 
Purité Audio said:
Simplicity itself to determine if there is a difference, you need a Cd player with a digital out, then compare unsighted to either the same ripped Cd or the same mastering/quality ‘streamed’ through the same dac, you just must not know which you are listening to.
KEITH
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That wouldn't really be a fair trial since you'd be introducing a system of data transmission from CDP to DAC which wouldn't necessarily be present in the one box system and would only perform as well as the CDP's implementation of an interface which doesn't form part of its primary function.
 
colasblue said:
Not so sure about that one actually. I can easily dem same data, same dac, different interface = different outcome.

To me different soft players don't sound the same and it certainly matters whether the data goes vis USB or SP/Diff and also which SP/diff output so there is a mechanism (or a variety of mechanisms) available to stuff things up between the ripped data and what ultimately emerges from the DAC.

I connect my DAC directly to the PC so I don't have any vagaries relating to transmission over a network in my main system, but there must be some I'd have thought.

To the extent that those processes are imperfect it would be foolish to assume that any system that eliminates some or all of them couldn't possibly do a better job.
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This is key for me - for FLACs I’ve ripped of CDs I own to sound so bad compared to either Radio Paradise or the original CD through same DAC, I must be doing something wrong. I’ve asked in a few threads now and not got an answer.
 
beammeup said:
A couple of dealers (I won't say who) have reported that good redbook CD playback is still a superior solution sound quality wise to the convenience of streaming - especially from the likes of Qobuz or Tidal.

I'm just interested if any of you Fishes have found the same thing?

All I do is stream from Qobuz so ... I maybe selling myself short compared to good old CD.
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There's a small group of people in the trade whose ears I trust and opinions I value, one or two of them tell me that there are now a couple of 'serious' streamers available. (Albeit with price tags well beyond my means).

I usually like to ask the question 'and do you stream at home?'

I assume one of them must eventually say 'yes' at some point.
 
It might be that your Kodi isn't set up correctly. Not an expert on Kodi but PC's are generally quite good at resampling to different rates and performing other DSP operations if you don't keep an eye on them.

If you're ripping with DB poweramp or EAC and your rips are passing the accurate rip test they should be good.

Try downloading the demo version of JRMC and set all the DSP studio options to off or source bitdepth, source number of channels etc.

Also set the output device to whatever you actually use and try running it on kernel streaming first, then ASIO if that won't work or WASAPI if the device doesn't support ASIO.
 
beammeup said:
ll I do is stream from Qobuz so ... I maybe selling myself short compared to good old CD.
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FWIW, my experience is generally CD sounds best, then file playback from local storage – in my case mostly my own rips from CD, or downloads (including hi-res) from HD Track or Qobuz, then the stuff squirted through the aether brings up the rear.

The lack of a sense of corporeal presence is usually the issue for me, oddly hi-res files can be the biggest offenders IME, some of them can sound like someone's trying to reconstitute a cow from several kilos of mince.

Darko did a good video a couple of years back; a long time advocate of file-based playback, he was genuinely surprised to find a Hegel Mohican was easier to listen to that pretty much anything he could muster on the streaming side.
 
Dowser said:
This is key for me - for FLACs I’ve ripped of CDs I own to sound so bad compared to either Radio Paradise or the original CD through same DAC, I must be doing something wrong. I’ve asked in a few threads now and not got an answer.
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Too many variables for anyone to accurately diagnose/advise unless they visit/witness your process and what’s going on. If I had to guess it’s a KODI thing - setting/fine tuning/bug/compatibility issue. Try another playback system/software instead of KODI, on different hardware if possible (maybe borrow off a mate).

Sherlock Holmes time if you can be bothered - different CD drive, different PC with dBPoweramp configured as per their forum guide, rip to a new USB Hard Disk - compare to old rips.
 
I have no experience with RaspOS, but might be worth checking if the audio is being resampled. For instance Android will resample your 44kHz CD rip to 48kHz. If the quality of the resample is poor...
 
Purité Audio said:
Same data, same dac= same.Dealers will say anything!
Keith
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Yes, some dealers will say anything, won't they Keith!!! :rolleyes:

Trouble is there are often other factors at play in digital replay which effect the end result. Come on, this has been done to death on this forum over the last 2 years...
 
Sold my last CD player (Linn Ikemi) around thirteen years ago. Used a variety of Linn DS boxes (and tried a Naim DAC) over the years, initially listening to local rips, then later subscribing to Qobuz. My experience with the narrow choice of digital kit I’ve owned - all Linn, from Karik/Numerik & then Ikemi, through most of Linn’s DSs up to and including Katalyst spec Klimax - is that for me local streaming beats CD. I still buy CDs and rip them to the server - I have around 4,000 CDs ripped, and another couple of hundred bookmarked in Qobuz.
I won’t comment on comparisons with Qobuz because, as has already been mentioned, we can’t always know the source material. I understand Tidal files use some form of watermarking so that could be a pointer to issues with some Tidal files, but that may just be hearsay.

Mick
 
colasblue said:
Not so sure about that one actually. I can easily dem same data, same dac, different interface = different outcome.

To me different soft players don't sound the same and it certainly matters whether the data goes vis USB or SP/Diff and also which SP/diff output so there is a mechanism (or a variety of mechanisms) available to stuff things up between the ripped data and what ultimately emerges from the DAC.

I connect my DAC directly to the PC so I don't have any vagaries relating to transmission over a network in my main system, but there must be some I'd have thought.

To the extent that those processes are imperfect it would be foolish to assume that any system that eliminates some or all of them couldn't possibly do a better job.

Whether there's sufficient imperfection in the data transmission path to open the door to an audible improvement through its elimination though is unproven, though presumably that's what's being claimed.
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Yup everything sounds different until you compare level matched and unsighted.
Keith
 
Looking at CDT's, I would love to try out the AN CDT 2 top loader, the older model used in good condition.
 
beammeup said:
A couple of dealers (I won't say who) have reported that good redbook CD playback is still a superior solution sound quality wise to the convenience of streaming - especially from the likes of Qobuz or Tidal.

I'm just interested if any of you Fishes have found the same thing?

All I do is stream from Qobuz so ... I maybe selling myself short compared to good old CD.
Click to expand...

I have an indirect experience of a friend visiting me
who is streaming into an active Linn system and Linn speakers but with a diy active cards power amps and a DSP room correction on top of that.

We listened to my passive NS1000 with Pre / class AB power combi from 1974 and my Karik / Numerik as frontend.

When the music started he stood there like someone had shot him to the stomach, eyes relatively wide open like in shock, pointed at my speakers and said:
'That's not possible. My dealer told me you cannot listen to CD anymore, it's that bad.'
My answer was: 'Well, obviously I can..'

But honestly, despite not having heard his system to this day, I think that CD / streaming was the smallest difference or sq relevance in his perceived quality difference.
I think his system had a bit much of a muchness in signal converting and maybe his amps and the speakers themselves were less phantastic than he thought they were ?

I should say I'm not anti streaming..I just like physical media and I'm too lazy to read into a new technology I still cannot make out what my advantage should be as I'm happy with CD.

The point being, obviously his dealer convinced my friend CD replay was so bad it's practically a big nono to use it today, which imo is wrong.
I'm sure streaming can be quite ok & I'm not claiming it's worse.
But the opposite is wrong the same imo & a good part of the people who break their head about which of those two has the bigger quality advantage would be far better off thinking about better speakers and amps.
 
Zombie said:
CDs take over: So much better than vinyl LPs!
Ten years later: vinyl LPs sound better than CDs!
Digital streaming takes over: So much better than CD!
Ten years later: CDs sound much better than streaming!
Clowns.
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And taking a bit of the sarcasm out of that,
I see a tendency to try and sell us something new once a market with a specific medium is fed up,
so you can sell the same music on a new medium once again.
And that the effort and cost for producing the medium itself is becoming lower at every new round.

But if a new trend establishes itself (people return to LP),
producers jump onto the wagon to earn their share.
So commerce is a bit of a bitch.

That doesn't make dealers bad guys per se by the way,
but it's in the nature of their jobs to sell someting.
 
My experience, using a dCS Rossini DAC and clock set with local files on a NAS or CDs in a Cambridge CXU both directly connected to the Rossini, is that there is no significant sonic advantage to justify the extra effort involved in CD playback (and storage).

However, I never found Tidal musically satisfying in either of the two lengthy trials I've had - one on this setup one on a more affordable Moon/Chord setup.

With my dCS setup I can hear differences between AIFF and WAV files derived from the same CD but find them small enough not to bother me (unlike FLAC vs either - if I have the choice for downloads I choose the provider offering WAV or AIFF).
 
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