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Streaming is inferior to redbook CD playback?

beammeup

beammeup

pfm Member
A couple of dealers (I won't say who) have reported that good redbook CD playback is still a superior solution sound quality wise to the convenience of streaming - especially from the likes of Qobuz or Tidal.

I'm just interested if any of you Fishes have found the same thing?

All I do is stream from Qobuz so ... I maybe selling myself short compared to good old CD.
 
The existence of high res files on the streaming services theoretically puts CD at a disadvantage. If you buy into the Audio Note view that you can't beat red book, or believe that something about the process of streaming detracts from the quality, then you might still think red book's better.

I just know my Linn DS sounds good with Qobuz. Unf my Meridian 508 is not here to compare.
 
beammeup said:
A couple of dealers (I won't say who) have reported that good redbook CD playback is still a superior solution sound quality wise to the convenience of streaming - especially from the likes of Qobuz or Tidal.

I'm just interested if any of you Fishes have found the same thing?

All I do is stream from Qobuz so ... I maybe selling myself short compared to good old CD.
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One thing to consider is that it depends what the version is, on streaming services there is less choice of the release/mastering/mix. For example Marillion - Clutching.. on Qobuz is only available to stream as the 2018 Re-Mix which to me in much inferior to the original version be that on CD, FLAC Rip or Vinyl. Whether it’s worth paying for physical media and fretting about the master/release is a personal choice, more prevalent with vinyl but there are folk who a clued up on the best CD release versions/pressings.

I think my rips sound better some of the time than Qobuz/Tidal but you never really know if you’re comparing exact like for like.
 
I’m game: CD playback via my JA sounds a little better than a FLAC rip of the same CD via my Node 2i, both digitally into the same DAC. I hear very little on streaming that reaches the quality of the CD playback, though that’ll be as much down to source material as playback mechanism.

The best bit about CD is that I tend to listen to much more - usually the entire disc - as compared to streaming.
 
Hmmm - ripped FLACs of CDs sound terrible (using Kodi for playback, running on a RaspOS on an RPi4 with Allo Digione hat into my DAC of choice), Radio Paradise playing from a browser in RaspOS on the RPi4 with Allo Digione hat sounds much better into same DAC. A CD player into same DAC sounds best of all.
 
lawrence001 said:
The existence of high res files on the streaming services theoretically puts CD at a disadvantage. If you buy into the Audio Note view that you can't beat red book, or believe that something about the process of streaming detracts from the quality, then you might still think red book's better.

I just know my Linn DS sounds good with Qobuz. Unf my Meridian 508 is not here to compare.
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Yes not only dealers, but manufacturers report that redbook is better - Audio Note, Mojo Audio and SW1X Audio Design to name a few.

For those of you that report hi-res streaming is better than redbook CD - what CD player (or transport) are you comparing this with?

I admit that streaming does sound good - it sounds good in my system - but having detached myself from CD for so long I haven't made a comparison recently.
 
JTC said:
The best bit about CD is that I tend to listen to much more - usually the entire disc - as compared to streaming.
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This is probably why I am questioning my streaming use, attention span of a few tracks or even skipping part way through onto something ‘better’. Just don’t find streaming enjoyable anymore despite the vast amount of material available.
 
As a couple of people have posted above, I think there are various ways to stream which will give different results.

Method 1 : Rip the CD to a non-lossy format and use a media server for playback.
This is what I do, I no longer have a stand-alone CD player having sold my Naim CDSii + CDPS combo many years ago. Before doing this I compared the sound of the analog output from the Naim to the digital output from my media streamer, using a pre-processor as the DAC. There was no meaningful difference and that was all I needed to have the confidence to sell the CDP. i.e. no streaming is not worse that a standalone CDP.

Method 2 : Sream media via a content provider like Quobuz.
I have not tried non-lossy formats from Tidal and Quobuz, but with (lossy) Spotify there is no contest and the ripped CD is easily better than Spotify @ their highest rate. I suspect @Amber Audio is spot on - it may not be possible to do a fair comparision as the service may offer a different version than your CD. I notice Spotify tend to show remasters of the albums I am interested in, my experience is that a lot of remasters are more compressed and louder so automatically sound different.
 
I don’t mind anymore if cd is superior or no to streaming.I just stream, is useless to buy cd’s if I can listen it on Spotify.With the money I save, I spend it on books.
 
It sounds like hype from people trying to sell expensive CD players to me.

The first digital source I actually found acceptable was essentially based on the same ripping principle as most people currently use, it just did it in real time!

The transport was a TAG McLaren DD32R (which is essentially a DVD drive ripping the CD and then error correcting it and buffering it to send to the dac) he DAC was the original Chord DAC64. This displaced a Naim CDSII shortly before the CDS3 was released.

I had tried the DAC64 with a Linn Genki as transport but it wasn't as good. I probably should have tried a Meridian transport before committing to the DD32R but didn't.

The thing that really annoyed me is how rapidly that setup subsequently evolved and how much money I lost on it.

The biggest kick was that a cheap PC could do just as good a job as the Tag. £200 vs £4.5K - ouch! By that time the DVDR was down to less than £1K used since blu ray had also come out.

Then the PS on the Chord DAC conked out. Fortunately it was within warranty so fixed for free, but I "sidegraded" to the original Benchmark DAC 1 which I'd demoed and bought for £700 vs £2K for the Chord. I found only one CD where I was able to tell the two apart.

Then I got a pro soundcard for the PC which in fairness didn't make a huge difference but did make some.

Then came the DAC2 and then the DAC3 both of which made a noticable improvement. The biggy with the DAC3 is that USB suddenly jumped ahead of SP/diff.

Not saying that cd players couldn't have evolved in parallel and certainly DAC and clock/jitter related improvements could apply to them as much as stand alone DACS but I don't think CD transports could have improved beyond what was possible 20 years ago since they're all based on standard mechanisms apart from a very few very expensive options, and perfect data retrieval was already possible then.
 
nbaptista said:
I don’t mind anymore if cd is superior or no to streaming.I just stream, is useless to buy cd’s if I can listen it on Spotify.With the money I save, I spend it on books.
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For you maybe - but "if" CD is that far ahead of streaming then it matters to me. I should at least know what I am missing (if anything).
 
Simplicity itself to determine if there is a difference, you need a Cd player with a digital out, then compare unsighted to either the same ripped Cd or the same mastering/quality ‘streamed’ through the same dac, you just must not know which you are listening to.
KEITH
 
Purité Audio said:
Same data, same dac= same.Dealers will say anything!
Keith
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Not so sure about that one actually. I can easily dem same data, same dac, different interface = different outcome.

To me different soft players don't sound the same and it certainly matters whether the data goes vis USB or SP/Diff and also which SP/diff output so there is a mechanism (or a variety of mechanisms) available to stuff things up between the ripped data and what ultimately emerges from the DAC.

I connect my DAC directly to the PC so I don't have any vagaries relating to transmission over a network in my main system, but there must be some I'd have thought.

To the extent that those processes are imperfect it would be foolish to assume that any system that eliminates some or all of them couldn't possibly do a better job.

Whether there's sufficient imperfection in the data transmission path to open the door to an audible improvement through its elimination though is unproven, though presumably that's what's being claimed.
 
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