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Stock Market 2021

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andyoz said:
How much better is it. It's not twice as good. Model S is 400 miles and Taycan is 300 miles. Have to ask yourself how many 300+ mile trips do you do in a single session?

As far as I can tell, Tesla are using Panasonic battery tech. All EV's are Li-ion based right? They haven't found any magic chemistry here that I can tell. They are tweaking it and using it more efficiently (for now) though maybe. I just can't see their USP lasting more than a few years. What am I missing?
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I think 300 is generous for the Taycan, or do they do a longer range model?

There is some way to go yet for the rest of them to catch up with regards the charging network and real world range, 180 miles in a car like the e-Tron is just poor, not to mention driving around dodgy garden centre car parks hoping the charger it has taken you to actually exists.

 
yeah I agree, I mean 300 real world miles - so that should include winter motorway trips - should be enough for most people. The charging infrastructure is absolutely miles behind yet. I'd love an EV, but I don't have any access to home charging and there is no way I am paying £20-30 to charge it at a Shell station.

Anyway, veering wildly off topic so I'll shut me trap.
 
^^^ No not off topic at all. Tesla is an interesting microcosm of the greater stock market.

As I understand it, 2 years ago when lots of smart traders had it on their deathwatch list Tesla also had the same tech advantage over the competition. What's suddenly changed? The Model 3 was released 3.5 years ago so that isn't it.
 
NeilR said:
New Model S plaid will be claimed as over 500 miles.

However quoted range is always unattainable in real world conditions. So in winter, the taycan range will be less than 200 miles. That starts to become an issue. So the teslas still have an advantage here.
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Which they achieve with bigger and heavy battery packs. This means higher electricity use in normal trips and eventually a more expensive replacement pack
 
davidsrsb said:
Which they achieve with bigger and heavy battery packs. This means higher electricity use in normal trips and eventually a more expensive replacement pack
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Yes, that's what I'm seeing when I research. It's more a fact that Tesla are say 15-20% ahead of the pack but the whole media etc mantra seems to indicate they are way, way, way out in front. The engineer in me just doesn't see it.

I've also reading alot of their autonomous tech isn't really field ready for many countries road conditions. Didn't a recent UK Model 3 buyer here on this forum say he'd turned most of it off after it did a full emergency stop on motorway out of nowhere..

Getting back to stock prices, I also believe that Tesla over the last year was actually the first WallStreetBets type movement only it wasn't as blatantly coordinated and was slower to unfold.

Tesla fans are the type to also be stock buying savy. They didn't like their company being shorted to hell and once they started buying, it was a positive feedback loop. The case for shorting Tesla was very strong a year or two ago...the company was burning cash and couldn't turn a profit.

I still maintain that the underlying principles of the company haven't drastically changed in the last year or two yet the share price has done a 20X ? Surely it wasn't because of the Tesla Semi or Cybertruck? If so where are they?

Here's webpage for the Semi.
https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/semi
Have a look at the video when it was unveiled in 2017...Musk said it would be delivered to customers in 2019. Now's it's 2021 apparently... I don't doubt it will.be on our roads eventually (along with Mercedes, etc EV trucks too) but can he just stop the headline grabbing Bullshit for once?

When Musk makes product predictions that don't materialize, he's called an 'optimistic maverick'. If any of the big established EV manufacturers did the same (repeatedly) they'd be called 'liars' actually.

Anyway DYOR.
 
We have reached a bit of an impasse with our upcoming car purchase for my wife. We would like an EV but don’t really like Teslas.

But other manufacturers, despite making nicer cars just don’t have the range of a Tesla (see the petrol ped video linked above by matt j for an example) and charging infrastructure is badly lacking. A non Tesla EV purchase is still a compromise too far, unfortunately.

I wish it were not so.
 
NeilR said:
We have reached a bit of an impasse with our upcoming car purchase for my wife. We would like an EV but don’t really like Teslas.

But other manufacturers, despite making nicer cars just don’t have the range of a Tesla (see the petrol ped video linked above by matt j for an example) and charging infrastructure is badly lacking. A non Tesla EV purchase is still a compromise too far, unfortunately.

I wish it were not so.
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I'd just buy a new generation Petrol that sips fuel and wait 3 years.

If you only feel there's one manufacturer as a realistic option doesn't that indicate you're pulling the EV trigger too fast?
 
A plug in hybrid would be a better interim solution. We both think it is morally indefensible to buy a ICE powered car these days.
 
matt j said:
I think 300 is generous for the Taycan, or do they do a longer range model?

There is some way to go yet for the rest of them to catch up with regards the charging network and real world range, 180 miles in a car like the e-Tron is just poor, not to mention driving around dodgy garden centre car parks hoping the charger it has taken you to actually exists.

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i like hub nut’s Jaguar i Pace video. Demonstrates the problems of long range EV driving in the UK

 
NeilR said:
A plug in hybrid would be a better interim solution. We both think it is morally indefensible to buy a ICE powered car these days.
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Why? The latest gen petrol are so efficient and EV's are a mobile chemical store and are still using alot more non carbon neutral based power than people think (Even when you are using say wind generated power there's still a carbon based backup supply ramped right down and running inefficiently)
 
andyoz said:
Why? The latest gen petrol are so efficient and EV's are a mobile chemical store and are still using alot more non carbon neutral based power than people think (Even when you are using say wind generated power there's still a carbon based backup supply ramped right down and running inefficiently)
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I should change that to it would be morally indefensible for us to buy an ICE car.

We are in the fortunate postion of being able to afford an EV which are more expensive than regular cars and to install a decent size solar array at our house to provide power for it.

If we cannot lead by example, then it would be a failure of our societal responsibility.
 
The I-Pace is the one I'd have if my situation allowed it, I think it is a great all round car. Bit of a jack of all trades, quick enough, practical enough, enough range etc. without being a one trick pony like doing 100mph in 2 seconds or something.

My only concern with EVs is are they ever going to be light enough to give us petrol heads that feeling of having a small/light sportscar underneath you?
 
I bought a new petrol car in December 2019, it replaced a 5 year old Euro 5 diesel. The hybrid model was just being launched. More expensive, more to go wrong, no better economy or emissions, would never be on running on electric living in a rural environment. Pointless. If I lived in a city, I could see the potential benefit. I’ll keep this petrol car until the EV technology has sufficiently evolved. I’m thinking that’s 5 - 10 years away. One thing I know for sure, my next car won’t be a Tesla.
 
Ponty said:
More expensive, more to go wrong, no better economy or emissions, would never be on running on electric living in a rural environment
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the newer ones do. Check out mercedes hybrid offerings. 60-70km of full electric range which is enough for most local trips
 
NeilR said:
I should change that to it would be morally indefensible for us to buy an ICE car.

We are in the fortunate postion of being able to afford an EV which are more expensive than regular cars and to install a decent size solar array at our house to provide power for it.

If we cannot lead by example, then it would be a failure of our societal responsibility.
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Yes, BEVs definitely the way forward for city pollution although jury is currently out for CO2. If you are able to provide solar power then that is a really good solution, but for most people it will take around 50,000km (+/- at lot, depending on battery size and grid carbon intensity) to break even with an ICE on CO2. South West Research Institute did an add-on analysis on the recent Polestar LCA report extending to hybrid and plug in hybrids which looked quite positive for the ICE hybrid (and even more so if they used partly decarbonised fuel like E10 with further biogasolines like bionaphtha which will be available as a by-product of biojet). Having said that, the LCA of battery manufacture will definitely improve as will the grid carbon intensity, but what we need to avoid is a manufacturing "CO2 bloom" due to current BEV manufacturing methods helped along by scrappage deals. Things should follow a natural product replacement cycle. Anyway, back on thread topic, for me, in order to benefit financially in a small way on the longer term BEV move, I am investing in Verra Mobility who are developing mobility revenue generation systems for governing authorities when their fuel tax revenue starts drying up....and also MP Materials who are a neodymium supplier.
 
NeilR said:
the newer ones do. Check out mercedes hybrid offerings. 60-70km of full electric range which is enough for most local trips
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I only buy Japanese (and made in Japan) cars now. I also need to be convinced on the whole lifecycle environmental impact of EV’s.
 
Ponty said:
I only buy Japanese (and made in Japan) cars now. I also need to be convinced on the whole lifecycle environmental impact of EV’s.
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Mazda are doing amazing things with their SkyActive petrols. Their Spark Controlled Compression Ignition is not just shallow marketing speak either.

Of course no one's talking about it as EV's all the go.
 
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