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Speeches in parliament over anti-semitic activities.

Having "friends of Israel" groups is as abhorrent as if they had "Friends of Assad" or "Brothers of Enoch Powell" groups to my mind!

I don’t agree at all. Israel was created in the aftermath of the worst genocide in the history of this planet as a safe homeland for the survivors. Whilst I utterly detest Netanyahu, Sharon, Likud and any other far-right politicians or parties I’d happily describe myself as a ‘friend of Israel’ as I support its core context. People on the Labour side likening it to the likes of Powell or Assad is exactly the kind of thing that will guarantee the Tories free reign to continue flushing the nation down the pan after the next election.
 
Yes, agree with most of this. Except that Corbyn is going after antisemitism, but the media isn't much interested
That’s right, once his detractors have worn this one out, they’ll circle back to Irish Republican terrorist collaborator, Russian spy, the manwhohatesbritain- rinse and repeat. Meanwhile we have a minority government in office, caught bang to rights driving racist policy and driving the economy over a cliff. Disctractions were never more needed.
 
The Labour Party really has kicked out members for anti-Semitism.

I saw the figures recently. The number of complaints was in the low hundreds (remember totakl membership of the part is > 500K) and (I *think*) roughly a third of those complaints were upheld and the members either suspended or booted out. Unfortunately I can't find the numbers again as Googling just returns hundreds of "Corbyn = Anti-Semite" smear stories.

Does it bother you at all that after weeks of wall to wall media coverage, you're not even aware of the basic numbers involved? Do you ever get the feeling you're being let down by the media?
 
On April 2nd the Independent reported a backlog of 70 complaints of anti-semitism in Labour which had not been dealt with at that point. Momentum has stated that there have been 'numerous' cases of antisemitism and the failure to deal with them in a 'decisive, swift and transparent manner.' I hope they will be given greater priority in future.

Anti-semitism is racism and there should be zero tolerance in the Labour Party I grew up with. People saying Labour is no worse than society as a whole on this issue are deluded, that's like saying there are no more paedophiles among teachers than in society as a whole. It is just not acceptable.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-jeremy-corbyn-smears-momentum-a8285656.html
 
Wait, I thought Momentum are supposed to be hard-left anti-semitic bullies?

No delusions here, gassor - simply a desire to see this issue reported soberly, factually and non-hypocritically.
 
I don’t agree at all. Israel was created in the aftermath of the worst genocide in the history of this planet as a safe homeland for the survivors. Whilst I utterly detest Netanyahu, Sharon, Likud and any other far-right politicians or parties I’d happily describe myself as a ‘friend of Israel’ as I support its core context. People on the Labour side likening it to the likes of Powell or Assad is exactly the kind of thing that will guarantee the Tories free reign to continue flushing the nation down the pan after the next election.

On that we fundamentally disagree then. I support the aims of the Palestinian people 100% and regard it as occupied Palestine with it's own indigenous people fighting a just war to return to the land which is rightly theirs in the same way as the French Resistance fought for freedom against Hitler. Whilst obviously the occupiers won't give a tinkers cuss what I think the only compromise I see as remotely acceptable is for "Israel" to return to it's original borders, the destruction of ALL settlements and for a two state solution which allows the Palestinians the same sovereignty, right to defend themselves with their own armed forces etc etc that we in the UK have.

Sorry to be patronising but if Hitler had initially won WW2 and occupied Britain then how the hell would we feel if during UN liberation of the UK it was declared that England is now lets say "Buddhastan" and a homeland for all Buddhists who will now take over all facilities and amenities and infrastructure and use them to best advantage incoming Buddhists at the cost and disadvantage to the English who could expect their homes and farmland confiscated and handed to leading Buddhists, all decent jobs to go to Buddhists, walls built to separate "nice" Buddhist areas from "nasty" English areas etc? If furthermore a superpower had equipped the Buddhist military so it could easily stomp on all descent from indigenous English people and largely because of the influence of wealthy and powerful Buddhists within the superpower who finance political parties there?

Whilst I'm glad that you "utterly detest Netanyahu, Sharon, Likud and any other far-right politicians" as most of us do, I can't see even a left leaning and more reasonable gov in "Israel" ever giving back "the occupied territories" and all the financial, military and "lebensraum" advantages they have come to enjoy as a result of the occupation unless FORCED to by international trade embargoes which include cutting it off from oil supplies etc etc in the same way as has been used against N. Korea, or by military defeat at the hands of Arab nations and Hamas, Hezbollah etc etc.

To once again state the obvious, the USA and UK are totally to blame for the present situation in terms both of initiating it and also providing unswerving support, financially and militarily for this far right apartheid regime to thrive and grow. As I said in another recent thread, I'm sure that if Israel started lining up Palestinians against the wailing wall and machine gunning them the USA would do no more than verbally "condemn it in the strongest terms" whilst behind the scenes offering them a mates rates on replacement machine gun ammunition.... They are already in contravention of over 250 UN resolutions against them, non of which has resulted in any enforcement of international law, and so yeah basically so long as USA has a policy of "Israel can literally do no wrong" I see no end to the conflict.
 
On April 2nd the Independent reported a backlog of 70 complaints of anti-semitism in Labour which had not been dealt with at that point. Momentum has stated that there have been 'numerous' cases of antisemitism and the failure to deal with them in a 'decisive, swift and transparent manner.' I hope they will be given greater priority in future.

Anti-semitism is racism and there should be zero tolerance in the Labour Party I grew up with. People saying Labour is no worse than society as a whole on this issue are deluded, that's like saying there are no more paedophiles among teachers than in society as a whole. It is just not acceptable.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...r-jeremy-corbyn-smears-momentum-a8285656.html

And I'll bet all those complaints of anti semitism turn out to be perfectly reasonable anti zionism.
 
I bet 'all' of them don't. Some people are just arseholes, even left leaning socialists.

I guess there will inevitably be the odd genuine case of anti Semitism but most of the stuff we've seen since the organised attempts to smear Labour as anti Semitic began have turned out to be anti Zionist and anti the far right apartheid gov in Israel... and yes of course they will do anything to conflate the two!! That's their number 1 aim!!
 
And I'll bet all those complaints of anti semitism turn out to be perfectly reasonable anti zionism.

Tell that to Momentum, they seem to be unaware.

Btw the Labour peer Lord Levy has said: "There can be criticism of the state of Israel, but anti-Semitism - using the word 'Zionist' as another form of anti-Semitism - frankly can no longer be tolerated."
 
I bet 'all' of them don't. Some people are just arseholes, even left leaning socialists.
Hard to disagree - and I say that as a member of the Labour Party and Corbyn supporter.

That said, it's important to acknowledge that:

1. An allegation of anti-semitism does not necessarily imply an occurrence of anti-semitism (innocent until proven guilty)

2. What qualifies as anti-semitism is itself a matter of debate both within and outside the Labour Party (I think this is Arkless' point)

This might be controversial but I think it's also important to acknowledge these things come in degrees. It's literally dying out now but some members of the older generation might still use dodgy terms when talking about "coloured" people and exhibit a general, low-level of xenophobia or whatever. That's more innocent (almost quaint, these days) than a member of Britain First who aggressively targets Muslims in the street. The latter demands a far more robust response than the latter, in my view.
 
Tell that to Momentum, they seem to be unaware.

Btw the Labour peer Lord Levy has said: "There can be criticism of the state of Israel, but anti-Semitism - using the word 'Zionist' as another form of anti-Semitism - frankly can no longer be tolerated."
I agree with this. It's not illuminating and it smacks of tarring all Jews with the same brush.

It gets a bit trickier when people talk about "the Israel lobby". To me this is an objective, factual way of describing groups who actively lobby in favour of the national interests of Israel. It ought to be possible to ask questions about how effective this lobbying is, and the extent to which other governments have taken on board the perspective of those groups. Yet I have seen people accused of anti-semitism for even mentioning this, and that can't be right.

This is what I meant when I said in my earlier post that the definition of "anti-semitism" is contested. And how it is defined can help or hinder legitimate debate.
 
Lord Levy and his Israel lobby drove the US and UK into destroying Iraq, a war which set the ME on fire and has left arguably close to a million innocent Muslims dead.

But what's far more important today apparently is that people don't upset his feelings by using the word Zionist in the wrong context.
 
Using words like zionism and anti zionism are most unhelpful. They have, can and will be used in the antisemitism row.

Gassor is right, the Labour Party should be a racist free zone. Corbyn and Momentum are working hard to make that so.

Just one racist in the Labour Party is an abhorrence.

In the fight against racism words are important, and the use of such words is unhelpful in that fight and will be ammunition for the enemies of Labour. Please don't use them
 
All this extreme ‘anti-Zionist’ rhetoric will lose Labour the next election, I’d put money on it. Those at the fringes really need to wise-up IMHO. As long as this rhetoric exists the anti-Semitism accusations will continue to stick and lots of decent voters will be put off. Jez, Maxflinn etc may think they are doing good, but in reality they are destroying the party’s chances of electoral success.
 
Lord Levy and his Israel lobby drove the US and UK into destroying Iraq, a war which set the ME on fire and has left arguably close to a million innocent Muslims dead.

My God, the guy controls not only the Israel lobby (?) but also British and American foreign policy. Must be the most influential chartered accountant in history.
 
Tell that to Momentum, they seem to be unaware.

Btw the Labour peer Lord Levy has said: "There can be criticism of the state of Israel, but anti-Semitism - using the word 'Zionist' as another form of anti-Semitism - frankly can no longer be tolerated."

Using words like zionism and anti zionism are most unhelpful. They have, can and will be used in the antisemitism row.

Gassor is right, the Labour Party should be a racist free zone. Corbyn and Momentum are working hard to make that so.

Just one racist in the Labour Party is an abhorrence.

In the fight against racism words are important, and the use of such words is unhelpful in that fight and will be ammunition for the enemies of Labour. Please don't use them

Don't fall into their trap!! They are chip, chip, chipping away at the use of terms such as Zionism, anti Zionism , anti Israel etc to do anything and everything they can to conflate legitimate campaigning against the apartheid far right Israel gov to actual hatred of people for merely following the religion of Judaism ie anti Semitism. Don't let them take anti Israel language away from you as is this is exactly what they want!

40 years ago the use of "the N word" would have been tolerable to many British people, most would not have thought or questioned too deeply what its use really means or implies as it was heard on an almost daily basis... it would now be social suicide and complete anathema to use the word, and quite rightly. They are trying very hard to make any criticism of Israel as unacceptable as using the N word and stooges such as Lord Levy are helping them in any way they can by being loyal firstly to their "second country" rather than to the Labour party or socialist movement. There is a Blairite pro Israel axis in the Labour party that needs lancing like a festering boil!
 
Tony, I do not share Jez's views on Israel.

I find your attitude towards "Killery" as you like to call her abhorrent but we seem to chime on some things:)

After just reading your post "Lord Levy and his Israel lobby drove the US and UK into destroying Iraq, a war which set the ME on fire and has left arguably close to a million innocent Muslims dead.
But what's far more important today apparently is that people don't upset his feelings by using the word Zionist in the wrong context"
the term "cognitive dissonance" springs to mind:D
 


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