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Speeches in parliament over anti-semitic activities.

ff1d1l said:
Well of course they haven't - are you a bit slow? Like Heidi Lee?
Actually look at what Jez says above, if you don't understand it look at the Wiki entry for Anti Zionism. Then succumb to the dawning realisation that Israel, Jews and Zionism might have overlaps in a venn diagram but are absolutely not the same thing. And apply a bit of rigour to your lazy thinking.
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I suggest you re-read what Robert posted.
Also suggesting I'm a bit slow doesn't help your case; it's just an example of the bullying tactics used by the new broad left/momentum types.
It is not unnoticed by the public and does not do the cause any good.
 
Well, I'm not a Momentum member. I'm not even a Labour Party member. I wasn't attempting to bully - but I do find that your political posts are, shall we say, weak, in both argument and awareness. I might not agree with ET, but you could never accuse him of not having deeply considered the views he posts, nor expressing them poorly, nor eschewing joined up thinking as part of that process.

This is not an analysis I could find myself making of your posts - or HeidiLee's for that matter. I read, I think Daily Mail, or worse, I think hook, line and sinker. Then it is freshly regurgitated, and there is little evidence of any digestive process having been employed.

I'm afraid in future I'll continue to call this out, if no one else does.

Exactly who are the public and what is the cause? I guess the phrase "an example of the bullying tactics used by the new broad left/momentum types" is another example of your trailblazing independent thought and incisive political analysis?
 
How very clever of you to analyse my posting style and yet avoid the question at the top of the post.
I’ll spell it out for you. Robert suggested that the anti-Semitism row in the Labour Party was a construct by the liberal PLP side of things as the Broad left/Momentum side of the party had worked hard to get rid of the liberal PLP. I asked if he was inferring the speeches by the MPs were fake news!
 
Can anyone tell me if the police are involved in chasing down the perpetrators of these anti-semitic attacks?
If the police cant find them how can anyone expect Corbyn to?
Isn't it all rather convenient to divert attention to 'Labour's' Anti-semitism issue rather than the broader UKIP/B1st/Combat18 and all shades of mindless prejudice in-between, including the UKIPisation of the Tory Party as evidenced by somewhat worse behaviour(given they have actually deported innocent people) directed to Commonwealth immigrants by the Conservative government? If the top of the Tory party are behaving this way can you imaging what those on the fringes must be doing?
 
cooky1257 said:
Can anyone tell me if the police are involved in chasing down the perpetrators of these anti-semitic attacks?
If the police cant find them how can anyone expect Corbyn to?
Isn't it all rather convenient to divert attention to 'Labour's' Anti-semitism issue rather than the broader UKIP/B1st/Combat18 and all shades of mindless prejudice in-between, including the UKIPisation of the Tory Party as evidenced by somewhat worse behaviour(given they have actually deported innocent people) directed to Commonwealth immigrants by the Conservative government? If the top of the Tory party are behaving this way can you imaging what those on the fringes must be doing?
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Nah. Anything which alerts the voters to the inherent incompetent loopiness of Corbyn and his ilk is just fine by me.

Labour should be miles ahead in the polls. That they aren't is entirely down to the leadership and it's incompetence. They are giving the Tories a free ride. Long may it continue.

Chris
 
Mescalito said:
Labour should be miles ahead in the polls. That they aren't is entirely down to the leadership and it's incompetence. They are giving the Tories a free ride. Long may it continue.

Chris
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I never thought I’d agree with one of your posts Chris!!
 
flatpopely said:
How very clever of you to analyse my posting style and yet avoid the question at the top of the post.
I’ll spell it out for you. Robert suggested that the anti-Semitism row in the Labour Party was a construct by the liberal PLP side of things as the Broad left/Momentum side of the party had worked hard to get rid of the liberal PLP. I asked if he was inferring the speeches by the MPs were fake news!
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Well, there wasn't a question - there was a suggestion.
Still...
A contrived situation (by the Blairites, who have much to lose) which is then reported with undue gusto and emphasis (by the press with much to lose at the behest of those with much more to lose). If that's your definition of fake news, so be it.
 
If it's not an issue in the Labour party, only a distraction by the Blairites, why does JC just state out loud there is no anti-Semitism in the party and have done with it?
 
It's hard to imagine even those least interested in politics in the UK not having had a few conversations with friends etc about this coordinated anti-Corbyn witch hunt, and the fabricated anti-Semitism scandal at the fore of it, so long and so blatantly and so prominently has it been drawn out.

The British public love an underdog too, especially one as likeable as Corbyn.

Those already fans will work even harder to convince others he's the answer, and many who weren't will have warmed to him anyway, based on his class and integrity and calmness, in the face of such obvious establishment-driven diversity, at a time when being anti-establishment is in itself a big attraction.

Those against him have massively overplayed their hand, and played right into Labour's, which they'll realise when it's the public, and not their controlled media bubble making judgement.
 
Flatpopely, as a member of Labour and Momentum I can only say that the kind of condescension you've received is not something I associate with the left. I believe it to be a hard centre thing. Brexit has brought it out in the open.

As for antisemitism most actual party members accept that there is a problem and that it has been instrumentalised by the right of the party.

I think it was Cav who pointed out that the Labour Party is not a feudal manor and that Corbyn can't simply snap his fingers and exclude members at will - not least because the party machinery for dealing with membership has been in the hands of - ta da! - the right for some time, as drood has said. The left has actually been pushing for the Chakrabarti Report to be implemented: it's been blocked for factional reasons. I know that there will be someone now who says "Typical! Fighting each other rather than the Tories!" but that's the messy reality of parliamentary politics in general and regime change in particular and it's both unrealistic and authoritarian to expect it to be simple.
 
Seanm said:
I think it was Cav who pointed out that the Labour Party is not a feudal manor and that Corbyn can't simply snap his fingers and exclude members at will - not least because the party machinery for dealing with membership has been in the hands of - ta da! - the right for some time, as drood has said. The left has actually been pushing for the Chakrabarti Report to be implemented: it's been blocked for factional reasons.
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The problem being the picture given is one of an archaic lumbering beast that is utterly incapable of even managing horrific issues of racism and sexism in its own ranks. How the hell is such a dithering slow-moving entity going to be able to run a country?

PS I say this as someone desperate for some real political opposition as I utterly detest the vile corrupt, shambolic, spiteful and racist Tories. This country is being destroyed in front of my eyes and there is no opposition capable of holding them to account or stemming the flow of destruction. No opposition to Brexit etc, just vacuous in-fighting and incompetence due to hopelessly archaic processes that seem to stem from 1950s trade union meetings etc.
 
There is undoubtedly anti semitism in the LP, to some small degree, just as there is in the wider society. The issue here is that factions within the LP are happy to conflate, with the help of Labour Friends of Israel and others, the opposition to the Zionist land grab and apartheid in Palestine with pogroms and kristallnacht.
IMHO he should have, but the distinction, as the Israel/Jews/Zionists venn diagram in my post above, might escape some people, especially with the water deliberately clouded by the MSM. So the path of least resistance it is.
It might be accused of whataboutery, but to still be banging on about this non-story when there have been very real deportations and holdings of individuals in detention centres as a result of nakedly racists policies by the tories seems to be missing the point somewhat. Don't you agree?
 
Tony L said:
The problem being the picture given is one of an archaic lumbering beast that is utterly incapable of even managing horrific issues of racism and sexism in its own ranks. How the hell is such a dithering slow-moving entity going to be able to run a country?
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In the same messy, difficult, contested way as other democratic parties. Or we could just throw all the rules and regulations out the window treat the country like a start up!

A lot of work has been done at all levels of the party to make the machinery both more transparent and participatory and more efficient. I've experienced first hand how much more productive it is at the constituency level, and now that most of the Blairites and dinosaurs at the executive level have given up the ghost there will be movement on racism and much else. But it will still be messy and there will still be disagreement and you will still be treated to "the picture" you describe on a daily basis.
 
Brilliant thread highlighting all that is wrong with the labour/far left/momentum.
Rather than face up to a problem (the reality is you don't want to) it is the normal blame RW, fake news, blairite scum, im not racist I just hate those isralies...
Carry on peeps because the country is thankfully beginning to wise up what a nasty bunch they are and hopefully the party will split into a moderate labour which we can all consider and a weirdo ranting self opinionated ukip left wing.
 
Tony L said:
The problem being the picture given is one of an archaic lumbering beast that is utterly incapable....


End of edited quote.


The picture given by opponents of Corbyn including the large rump of " snout in the trough" Blairite MPs gleefully encouraged by billionaire media owners and the Tory Broadcasting Corporation.
All groups made up of members will contain some unsavoury characters, some there purely to cause trouble. The founder of Momentum is, I understand, Jewish himself, I would think this would hardly be prima facie evidence of anti Semitism.
Some will use fake or grotesquely exaggerated arguments to discredit an honourable man who wants to unrig this corrupt country. Presumably because they like the opportunities for enrichment this corruption offers.
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Philim said:
Brilliant thread highlighting all that is wrong with the labour/far left/momentum.
Rather than face up to a problem (the reality is you don't want to) it is the normal blame RW, fake news, blairite scum, im not racist I just hate those isralies...
Carry on peeps because the country is thankfully beginning to wise up what a nasty bunch they are and hopefully the party will split into a moderate labour which we can all consider and a weirdo ranting self opinionated ukip left wing.
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Tell us more about your stated beliefs about ‘the ordinary folk’ being overwhelmed by change- ie. too manyforeigners comin in too quick, the high street being unrecognisable’ etc. It’s a topic you raised but seem rather shy about elaborating.
 
Yes, the right wingers mostly had the good sense to stay out of it last time around. You'd think they'd be even more circumspect now that the innate racism of the Conservatives is front page news.

Guys, they're racist and they brag about it! Nice party you've got there!
 
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