Speaker coupling - it's an actual thing

[windhoek]

I'm just home from an overnight stay in Bonnyrigg, just outside Edinburgh and I've had a rough night: my side of the conjoined beds was saggier than the so called mo-fi smiley EQ curve and so I've only had about three hours of sleep. All I can think of to say here is that it does seem as though there are potential gains to be had by moving your speakers around. I hit the jackpot by chance and I reckon I'll leave them alone until I absolutely must move them again, like if and when I move out of here.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Wouldn't it be great if we could be pleased for windhoek discovering something that makes his music sound better, rather than bickering over terminology? But it is pfm, after all.

 

[Filian]

I'm still inclined to consider the term coupling as useful and meaningful. When two speakers are in such harmony, such unison during operation so as to produce a truly seamless soundstage with an almost incomprehensible fluidity from one speaker to the other and much more besides, well there has to be a way of describing that and coupling seems like useful term - especially when it's much easier to arrive at inferior results during setup that are otherwise pretty damn good and would be perfectly acceptable to many if not most hifi enthusiasts.

This effect has also been called room lock. It's probably a rare thing but you're certainly not alone in hearing it.

Your OP description of this effect sold the notion that it exists - I've heard it and I've also struggled to figure out what accounts for it. It's generally made by the simpler, better quality electronics and likewise, the simpler, better quality speakers. I think it's probably more related to good phase and time work in the speakers and very clean conditions in the driving amplification and sources. Did you say what's in your rig?

Forum audio insists that a thing can't be until someone can sell a popular explanation for it, yet the sound is real. I can't possibly be going 200kph without supporting horsepower curves, etc. Dumb as this cart before the horse reasoning is, we suffer through it and keep going.

 

[Chris]

How about calling it Uni Son which is not the same as unison ´cos it´s 2 different sounds at any one time but working together.

 

[Darren L]

I have watched Roy Gregory install loudspeakers in a room, and by the end, he is nudging them this way and that a couple of millimetres at a time. And yes, the difference can be significant. And it extends beyond the 'hot seat'. I'd describe one difference as that between having a solid, stable image, and between having the same but with the speakers utterly disappearing.

Is that not how everyone does it?
I generally start with the manufacturers, dealers or previous owners recommendations and then slide the speakers about (sans spikes or footers) until 'dialled in'

Call me crazy, but given the choice, I enjoy the music more sitting slightly off axis. My loudspeakers are setup in a manner (Earl Geddes approach) where off center listening produces a very satisfying result. I guess I’m more a music vs imaging guy and find sitting directly in the middle more a distraction.

Most of the time I'm listening off axis or more than likely from another room whilst occupied with something else but that doesn't mean I'll not have speakers set up to give an optimal performance.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

How about calling it Uni Son which is not the same as unison ´cos it´s 2 different sounds at any one time but working together.

Well, there are two speakers, so how about Bi Son - it's not common, or easy to track down but very impressive when you herd it.

 

[chris geary]

This

: D

It makes sense to me. It's about phase relationships. If you have all the drivers/transducers exactly the same distance from the listening position, the initial direct wave front will arrive at that position at the exact same time. If one speaker is an inch further away, the wave form will not arrive at precisely the same time, and there will be phase issues with the other speaker.

 

[Jason P]

It makes sense to me too. I think all too often speaker placement is compromised by aesthetic considerations for domestic harmony, other visual peccadilloes (symmetry in my case, as I can't abide slight deviations from perfect), practicality (access/safety) and a host of other things. So that compromises the speaker/room interaction and subsequent smearing due to reflections/nodes etc. Sounds like Windhoek has found the sweet spot and eliminated much of that which gets in the way of his speakers sounding good. So in that sense they are coupled, to each other and the unique properties of his listening environment.

 

[Tony L]

Ignoring time-alignment issues, rake can still be of benefit in point sources or mini-monitors in situations where it otherwise isn't possible or desirable to get the tweeter close to ear height.

I’ve currently got my upstairs 149s fairly low and tilted:

The tilt is rather more than the picture implies; rear spikes fully up, front fully down.

Preferable IMO to the LS3/5A stands which place them too high, this gives more bass weight, works better low on the beanbag, and also from a more normal listening position on a chair further away. My TV system is even more extreme having the Spendor S3/5R on those little Ikea tilt-back floor stands that everyone uses with Shahinian SuperElves either side of the fairly low mounted TV. That little system works surprisingly well!

 

[windhoek]

This effect has also been called room lock. It's probably a rare thing but you're certainly not alone in hearing it.

Your OP description of this effect sold the notion that it exists - I've heard it and I've also struggled to figure out what accounts for it. It's generally made by the simpler, better quality electronics and likewise, the simpler, better quality speakers. I think it's probably more related to good phase and time work in the speakers and very clean conditions in the driving amplification and sources. Did you say what's in your rig?

Forum audio insists that a thing can't be until someone can sell a popular explanation for it, yet the sound is real. I can't possibly be going 200kph without supporting horsepower curves, etc. Dumb as this cart before the horse reasoning is, we suffer through it and keep going.

I tried a number of positions over 7 days or so and it was a case of good, better, good but not quite right, not right at all then bam, that's unimaginably good... that's coupling!

My system comprises: Bluesound Node 2i>Chord Qutest + Technics 1210GR>Rega Aria phono stage up front going into a Teddy Pardo i80a amp and out of a pair of KLH Model 5s, the modern version; the KLHs are on a pair of Wharfedale Linton 85 stands which in turn are on pairs of mana sound frames.

Yeah, it sounds like I've gotten my speakers into a position whereby they're working together as one - regardless of the merits of describing it as coupling - and in harmony with my ears and the room.

At times the soundstage seems to extend way past the width of the speakers and the sweet spot isn't as narrow or as critical as it used to be; previous setups have resulted in the centre image being solid but pretty dependent on my sitting in the sweet spot. I'm too tired to sum everything up but it's nothing short of mesmerising.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I tried a number of positions over 7 days or so and it was a case of good, better, good but not quite right, not right at all then bam, that's unimaginably good... that's coupling!

That's Speakerwang!

 

[wulbert]

I'm just home from an overnight stay in Bonnyrigg, just outside Edinburgh and I've had a rough night: my side of the conjoined beds was saggier than the so called mo-fi smiley EQ curve and so I've only had about three hours of sleep. All I can think of to say here is that it does seem as though there are potential gains to be had by moving your speakers around. I hit the jackpot by chance and I reckon I'll leave them alone until I absolutely must move them again, like if and when I move out of here.

I tried a number of positions over 7 days or so and it was a case of good, better, good but not quite right, not right at all then bam, that's unimaginably good... that's coupling!

My system comprises: Bluesound Node 2i>Chord Qutest + Technics 1210GR>Rega Aria phono stage up front going into a Teddy Pardo i80a amp and out of a pair of KLH Model 5s, the modern version; the KLHs are on a pair of Wharfedale Linton 85 stands which in turn are on pairs of mana sound frames.

Yeah, it sounds like I've gotten my speakers into a position whereby they're working together as one - regardless of the merits of describing it as coupling - and in harmony with my ears and the room.

At times the soundstage seems to extend way past the width of the speakers and the sweet spot isn't as narrow or as critical as it used to be; previous setups have resulted in the centre image being solid but pretty dependent on my sitting in the sweet spot. I'm too tired to sum everything up but it's nothing short of mesmerising.

I'm quite interested in what you describe ( and happy for you too). I have noticed that sometimes my speakers sounded much better than other times as I've played about with them in different rooms. I've never had what you describe though. I sometimes wonder if the "soundstage" thing is a happy by-product artefact generated by the human brain, rather than what the "artist/engineer intended". But I'd like to experience it.

I'm particularly interested that you say that, having "coupled" the speakers (call it what you will), then moving your head left or right doesn't affect the "rightness" of the sound.
I always find that moving my head a tiny bit makes the vocalist shift position, and for that reason I can't really be arsed faffing about with speaker position too much, because I don't have the luxury of a listening chair in the "sweet spot". Everything in my set up is a compromise of positioning, WAF, comfort/ergonomics and "wrong" furniture. E.g there's a jumbo Louden guitar hanging 3ft from one speaker, which resonates like mad. Maybe one day I'll get a corner in a bigger house to explore this phenomenon.

 

[windhoek]

Maybe speaker setup is like trying to shoot two arrows at an archery target: they could be in the right zone... or they could be smack bang in the middle of the bullseye. The jump in performance from my speakers after that last adjustment makes me think my arrows are smack bang in the middle of the bullseye. And if they're not? They must be close. So close that I'm leaving them exactly where they are in case the next move and every subsequent move takes them farther away from the bullseye. I'd kick myself forever if I did that!

 

[Colin L]

At times the soundstage seems to extend way past the width of the speakers and the sweet spot isn't as narrow or as critical as it used to be; previous setups have resulted in the centre image being solid but pretty dependent on my sitting in the sweet spot. I'm too tired to sum everything up but it's nothing short of mesmerising.

Sounds like you got something wired out of phase

 

[windhoek]

I'm quite interested in what you describe ( and happy for you too). I have noticed that sometimes my speakers sounded much better than other times as I've played about with them in different rooms. I've never had what you describe though. I sometimes wonder if the "soundstage" thing is a happy by-product artefact generated by the human brain, rather than what the "artist/engineer intended". But I'd like to experience it.

I'm particularly interested that you say that, having "coupled" the speakers (call it what you will), then moving your head left or right doesn't affect the "rightness" of the sound.
I always find that moving my head a tiny bit makes the vocalist shift position, and for that reason I can't really be arsed faffing about with speaker position too much, because I don't have the luxury of a listening chair in the "sweet spot". Everything in my set up is a compromise of positioning, WAF, comfort/ergonomics and "wrong" furniture. E.g there's a jumbo Louden guitar hanging 3ft from one speaker, which resonates like mad. Maybe one day I'll get a corner in a bigger house to explore this phenomenon.

There is some drift of the centre image when you move your head, but it's much less obvious than before - previous setups have had the centre image sitting on a knife edge so that if you moved your head an inch to the left then the centre would jump to the left and leave the right speaker altogether. Maybe a better way to describe it would be to say the centre image now stretches a little when you move your head to the left, but's pretty smooth and it stays connected to the right speaker, and vice versa.

I've got my classical guitar hanging just to the right of my right speaker and I keep a halved bath sponge between the strings and the body; I do the same with my Taylor acoustic which is hanging on another way. When I say halved bath sponge I mean I cut it in half so that I ended up with two thin but full size bath sponges. It totally works as a string damper when you're playing music. I'll see if I can find a picture...

My setup is completely different so that it's my classical guitar there now and there's a big speaker about a foot away, in the gap between the record player and the guitar (and the record storage unit is on the other side of the room), but you should be able to see what I mean all the same:

 

[ToTo Man]

...there's a jumbo Louden guitar hanging 3ft from one speaker, which resonates like mad. Maybe one day I'll get a corner in a bigger house to explore this phenomenon.

Resonating musical instruments have no place in a listening room but if it isn't negotiable then at least stick a sock between the fretboard and strings of that Louden and cover its sound hole... you'll thank me later!

 

[wulbert]

There is some drift of the centre image when you move your head, but it's much less obvious than before - previous setups have had the centre image sitting on a knife edge so that if you moved your head an inch to the left then the centre would jump to the left and leave the right speaker altogether. Maybe a better way to describe it would be to say the centre image now stretches a little when you move your head to the left, but's pretty smooth and it stays connected to the right speaker, and vice versa.

I've got my classical guitar hanging just to the right of my right speaker and I keep a halved bath sponge between the strings and the body; I do the same with my Taylor acoustic which is hanging on another way. When I say halved bath sponge I mean I cut it in half so that I ended up with two thin but full size bath sponges. It totally works as a string damper when you're playing music. I'll see if I can find a picture...

My setup is completely different so that it's my classical guitar there now and there's a big speaker about a foot away, in the gap between the record player and the guitar (and the record storage unit is on the other side of the room), but you should be able to see what I mean all the same:

Thanks. I'll give the sponge (or sock! ) a try. The resonance sometimes annoys me when I speak, because the guitar resonates for a couple of seconds after I shut up.

 

[Alex S]

I’ve currently got my upstairs 149s fairly low and tilted:

The tilt is rather more than the picture implies; rear spikes fully up, front fully down.

Preferable IMO to the LS3/5A stands which place them too high, this gives more bass weight, works better low on the beanbag, and also from a more normal listening position on a chair further away. My TV system is even more extreme having the Spendor S3/5R on those little Ikea tilt-back floor stands that everyone uses with Shahinian SuperElves either side of the fairly low mounted TV. That little system works surprisingly well!

I swing the other way but my speaker stands are my other speakers (don’t tell Linn).

It wasn’t just Super Elves, my ProAc Tabs sounded really good on Ikea stands.

 

[awkwardbydesign]

Thanks. I'll give the sponge (or sock! ) a try. The resonance sometimes annoys me when I speak, because the guitar resonates for a couple of seconds after I shut up.

We used to have a gas fire that resonated like mad. Too many parts to damp them all.

 

[ToTo Man]

Jim Smith, author of Get Better Sound, is not a fan of equilateral triangle loudspeaker positioning. He recommends that the distance between the speakers should be approx 83% of the distance from the speaker to the listening position, in order to achieve optimal "coupling" between the speakers at lower midrange frequencies. His book goes into a lot more detail but he gives an overview in this video:

I purchased his book not long after its release but didn't actually follow his methodology as I didn't have the heart to ask my dad to turn my floor into a huge chessboard with strips of tape!