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Speaker Cables, A Special Note (from ye olde Naim Audio)

I'm sure my dad had reels of RS 56 strand in red and black, because we made up our our own cables before NACA 4 came along.
 
If you still had those old reels and a deep freezer you could be competing with Deep-Cryo treatment tech extraordinaire Chris West (formerly of Naim USA, now of AVOptions).

"example calculation
11 foot pair of Twisted-56 with Dual banana plugs to straight mounted pairs of banana pins:
—Wire @ $24 x 11 ft = $264
—Two Dual plugs fitted @ $95 each = $190
—Two Pairs of Banana pins @ $75 per pair = $150
Total for this set of AV Options terminated Twisted-56 wires: $604"​

Surprised there isn't a shrink-wrap charge of $50 per termination.

I well remember my dealer doing these for free with every Naim amp sold. If you happened to buy in winter, you got free Canadian cryogenic treatment on the way home too.

twisted56.jpg
 
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Craig B said:
Regardless, my offer stands to run the specs of any alternative cables that Naim owners wish to consider. As @Gervais Cote found, the difference could be down to one's amp running circa 8ºC more than is typical. Those alternative cable users that prefer to run their's 24/7 should really consider having a closer look.
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Craig, I'd be delighted to take you up on your offer! I got tired of wrestling with/looking at my incumbent NAC A5, so I bought (secondhand, here on PFM) some Vertere "Pulse X Mini" 5M speaker cables. I had heard a rumor that Vertere makes the SuperLumina cables for Naim, and since my 250.2 is more tolerant of different cables than the older amps, I took a punt. The 250.2 runs as cool "as the other side of the pillow" with the Vertere cables, so I figure they can't be too far wrong. I tried to find the specs of this cable, but couldn't find any.
 
joe9407 said:
Craig, I'd be delighted to take you up on your offer! I got tired of wrestling with/looking at my incumbent NAC A5, so I bought (secondhand, here on PFM) some Vertere "Pulse X Mini" 5M speaker cables. I had heard a rumor that Vertere makes the SuperLumina cables for Naim, and since my 250.2 is more tolerant of different cables than the older amps, I took a punt. The 250.2 runs as cool "as the other side of the pillow" with the Vertere cables, so I figure they can't be too far wrong. I tried to find the specs of this cable, but couldn't find any.
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Hi Joe,

It's just as well that your amp runs as cool "as the other side of the pillow" (I like that!), as Vertere doesn't appear to publish any electrical specifications of their offerings. As minimum, assuming reasonably low resistance, we'd need know inductance and capacitance to come up with comparable minimum vs. maximum lengths relative to A5. Regardless, your having 5m is likely a good way to err on the side of caution here, as I've found many 'standard' configuration cables to measure closest to A4/A5 with circa 5m minimum lengths for loop inductance to match 3.5m A4/A5, and circa 5-7m maximum for parallel capacitance to equal that of 20m A4/A5 .

I did manage to locate the LCR specs of Super Lumina (via a Hi-Fi News review, so hopefully no errors here) and they make for an interesting comparison with those of A5. The review claims "Naim’s listening tests indicated a different resistor value was required to ‘tune’ different lengths of cable. Our 7m length showed a leakage of 0.3Mohm (302kohm) which is illustrative of the resistor value.". Regardless, running the Super Lumina LCR values through Excel suggests 4.73m minimum to match A5 loop inductance, and 4.82m maximum to match A5 on parallel capacitance. The Hi-Fi News review pair were reported to be 7m, putting parallel capacitance at 465pF (vs. 320pF for 20m A5); not OTT, but interesting considering that 20m of Super Lumina would measure 1328pF (again, assuming the Hi-Fi News values are accurate).

Craig
 
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Thanks, @Craig B ! I seem to recall that the SL cables have a little box with a resistor in it toward the speaker end of the cables; the more-expensive Vertere cables also have a similarly-situated wee box, though I have no idea what's in it.
 
It all seems rather vague, however, if you haven't done so already, you may want to read the relevant page from the brochure here.

They refer to positions 1 & 3 as being 'soft' & 'hard' shield connection respectively, with position 2 for shield connection off.

Without knowing any more than that, I'd recommend caution, especially so WRT the volume being turned fully down between tests.
 
LPSpinner said:
Hi Guys

In My experience Naim amplifiers are much less sensitive to cable than some would have you believe. I own a Bolt together NAP160, NAP140 and a NAP250. I have used various cables including a cut up 240V 10amp extension lead, a generic 14 AWG flat cable (two flat conductors positioned side by side), and my preferred cable, based on cost and availability, is a generic 12 AWG two parallel cores available at my local electronics hobby shop. I am yet to experience any sign of instability.

The main thing, as mentioned in the manual shown above, is not to use “SO CALLED HIGH-DEFINITION WIRE…”. Most of these geometrically complex, braided or litz style cables are not much better than wiring a capacitor across the amplifiers output, I tend to avoid this type of cable for any amplifier.

Oh; and the 3.5 min cable length; It is a rough guide only, the manual says “should” not “must”, two very different words. I have use lengths as short as 2 metres with no problems. Just avoid the platted / braided type cable and you will be fine.

LPSpinner
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I use relatively generic 4mm 99.99% OFC copper cables which happen to be 2.5m long because I bought a 5m spool and cut it in half. Works great with the Nait1, the NAP140 and I assume anything else.
 
martin clark said:
The zobel if anything is the more important bit as I understand it - it means at HF the amp 'sees' a resistive load. Good for stability. The Thiele network 'stands-off' parasitic capacitances (and RF) from the amp at HF, and so adds to stability from load interaction effects. Ironically, while you see amps often tested with a load of '8ohms in parallel with 2uF' for testing, it is smaller capacitances, tens of nF, that can really destabilise power amplifiers and provoke a riot above the audioband /meltdown resulting. The late Cyril Bateman published some analysis ('Cables, Amplifiers and Speaker interactions') using a DSelf 'Blameless' amp - and cooked the output stage once or twice in the process IIRC...
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I have a BD Nap 160 with the Zobel removed,it sounds much cleaner and better without it.
 
Flat said:
But it sounds so much better,as long as you do not shorten the speaker wires.
I have also had a Nap 110 with this mod with similar gains in sound quality.
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Most amps will blow up if do this. Do not do it. Those that don't will be HYPER SENSITIVE to the load and likely to go unstable if you look at them the wrong way. I tend to doubt that whatever you say you've done is to remove the Zobel network.
 
Naim amps are on the edge of stability anyway. Your amp is probably cooking itself and/or your tweeters too.
 
Naim NACP (Naim Audio Crock Pot) conversion, 'World Class Slow Cooking', 24/7...

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I find it funny how some people on here are so butthurt by Naim as a brand and seem to have an aversion to their advice and marketing strategy. Remember all of the advice they provide regarding cables is just a recommendation you do not have to abide by it, it just covers them in the event of failures. Also to note it is in their commercial interest to recommend their own cables for use with their systems, it's also designed to work together so makes sense to me. Disclaimer; I like Naim and I use Nac a5, I have tried other cables and found it sounded best with the Naim cables.
 
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