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Simple DC motor control

Wow now that's just nice. Soldering that is going to be a bit tricky for ms fox... I'd have a punt but too wobbly hand wise these days. Looks perfect especially as some people get sniffy over Pro-Ject...

But I would like to tuck the lot away in the TT housing old skool if possible and assemble premade parts (which is now about my level) rather than ground-up build...
 
Ok I did it. eBayed a Hercules PSU and Farnell have the Premotec 110v 250RPM 50Hz motor needed.

This is what 'oor robert' calls a dog's dinner. Not too much plexi involved despite my prior urges with a laser cutter. Should be an adventure and thats what its all about. Its just for playing about with so no need to go too crazy. Its cost me less than £480 so far and thats not a lot in real TT money.
 
Its still a dc motor, it will still suffer from thermal drift, its a nice little circuit on the cheap but better exists, been there built therm, used them measured them, moved on.

In the 18 months I have used mine it has been fed 2.92 volts and as remained accurate and unlike an ac motor it don't cog and vibrate to such an extent it would pique ann summers interest.:D
 
Alas the soldering is too much for me, I am a snap together type of DIYer these days... oh and a CAD guy so drawing up the hardware for the top plate and taking the bearing, motor and geometry for the 12" arm is my level. The hardest bit I hope will be working out the cart for the Hadcock. As I use a Devialet it's not like I am totally stuffed for choice cart loading wise (it looks like anything goes, just dial it in from the web configurator), clever French people...

it needs a name
 
PS what is hole dimension of the LP12/Hercules switch?
I ought to stick that on the top plate.

fun
 
In the 18 months I have used mine it has been fed 2.92 volts and as remained accurate and unlike an ac motor it don't cog and vibrate to such an extent it would pique ann summers interest.:D

Gerald, when you look simply at the world it looks simple. I assume you have no measurements to back your claim up, no graphs of speed variance vs time, no wavelet power analysis, no FM demodulation etc etc. Sure if you listen to a DC motor they can sound alright if you don't listen too closely and stick to music without sustained single notes or if you aren't particularly sensitive to pitch variance. However if you are blessed with that sensitivity and a predilection for piano concertos on vinyl as well as an enquiring mind and access to a selection of measurement equipment and friends with the ability to turn that raw data into meaningful visual comparisons then it soon becomes obvious that DC motors are just inherently unstable, even the 200 euro ones from Maxon.

It's trivial to load an AC motor such that cogging is reduced to levels akin to that in shaded pole or DC motors.
 
The Linn switch rectangular cut out is 27.25mmx22.25mm.

Yes that .25 is the expansion from zero -- once learned that the hard way. Thanks. I habitually add a .10 here and there when CADing up stuffs for collets stud mounts and sleeves. Thanks. I know where I am with a sodding great milling machine, but AC or DC and I'm all over the place...

Need do decide on a name, le plinque I think...
 
Gerald, when you look simply at the world it looks simple. I assume you have no measurements to back your claim up, no graphs of speed variance vs time, no wavelet power analysis, no FM demodulation etc etc. Sure if you listen to a DC motor they can sound alright if you don't listen too closely and stick to music without sustained single notes or if you aren't particularly sensitive to pitch variance. However if you are blessed with that sensitivity and a predilection for piano concertos on vinyl as well as an enquiring mind and access to a selection of measurement equipment and friends with the ability to turn that raw data into meaningful visual comparisons then it soon becomes obvious that DC motors are just inherently unstable, even the 200 euro ones from Maxon.

It's trivial to load an AC motor such that cogging is reduced to levels akin to that in shaded pole or DC motors.

accepting your golden ears [ im curious do these trump your measurements ], i have the motor you use , i have a feeling you dont own a maxon.

p.s - as always i speak only of my experience i make no claims to generality , try not to take different opinions personally, it is not healthy to obtain self esteem from a hifi forum .

pps.i measure it weekly with a strobe , laser rpm counter , platter speed and as of yesterday a simple rpm app in which you place your phone on the platter and it displays the rpm.
 
Remastering is a little more cynical than just enabling simple income from the reselling of a physical record, some (quite a few) contracts allowed a release of rights ownership back to artists clause *if* the work has not been repressed/reprinted after a certain number of years, all it takes is a special limited edition remaster some never see the light of day, for the current rights owner to maintain ownership of the work, if it incurs an income as a package from streaming and leasing then a physical remaster/repress is all that is needed to maintain it.

Just as a FYI. For the ones we see, this is why so many old cadavers are warmed up, dressed in new clothes, served up as "better than before".
 
I make no claim for golden ears, just pitch sensitivity, a curse not a blessing. Measurement always trumps a hunch, though it doesn't always mean I'll ignore the hunch.

I've owned several Maxon motors from across their range, A-Max, Re-Max and EC and using different types of top bushing arrangement. I've used them with various controllers of different type, including tacho feedback, pwm versions right down to a simple current sense feedback- in this case the one under discussion here. I also used to run and SME deck with a DC motor. I've even used ones that claim to use feedback but have no active feedback loop in their design. So yes, I've used quite a few and I've measured them all. Though you are indeed correct I'm currently the owner of none of these, well spotted.

A strobe will show you if you are above or below a fixed speed, it's not much use for giving an accurate reading as they just aren't temporally sensitive, good for a 10,000 foot view though. A Laser RPM counter is little better than a strobe, it tells you what happens when the mark passes but not anything for a sample smaller than that. I don't know which phone app you use, but none of the ones I've seen are any more accurate than a paper strobe disc.

The problem with all of those measures is that they only really tell you the average speed. They are limited in temporal resolution and offer no real insight other than playing averagely fast or slow.

Maybe stop in at the 'turntable speed stability' thread in the diy section for greater insight if you have a genuine interest in achieving results that stand up to scrutiny rather than just consisting of opinion or regurgitated marketing hyperbole.
 
The advantage of the DC motor on a floating sub chassis deck like the LP12 is that they are usually silent/low vibe enough (if foam mounted) to mount straight on the sub chassis, and that in my opinion seems to trump a lot of other factors.
 
Ok I did it. eBayed a Hercules PSU and Farnell have the Premotec 110v 250RPM 50Hz motor needed.

This is what 'oor robert' calls a dog's dinner.

Haha... so long as it tastes good and looks good, enjoy!

FWIW when it comes to TT speed stability I think chasing very low numbers is a bit pointless. Nice to have sure, but not something to fret about.
There should be no appreciable flutter from the drive as the platter should be smoothing this, which leaves low rate wow.
In this area records are simply all over the shop, added to which you have the cantilever connected to a spring merrily 'scrubbing' back and forth in the groove whenever it hits the mildest of bumps.

More important to minimise noise and drift IMO rather than chasing down low rate wow.
 
Epic speed stability is the icing on an already accomplished cake, if the rest of your deck is poor then there's no point gilding one area of it so heavily- obviously. If you're already down in the <-70db's for combined bearing rumble and motor noise then there's no reason not to aim for top notch speed precision. Factor in that many decks aren't of the suspended sub-chassis type and it becomes increasingly attractive.

Rob, It would appear I've been more fortunate than you in my record selection, I have very few that are noticeably off center..
 
Main rationale. It was cheap and east to fit and does 45rpm

I just found out I can get a 9" Rega Geom arm in the gap behind the platter.
oh myyyy!
Dangerous thought planted.

I also thought a bout the support. Wall Mount?... nana, its timber framed facing rock to hold insulation. I have several tonnes for floor conk pored onto rubble and tild/floord on top.


Wood Table: a LACK on steroids...

suspending premotec using standoffs and gasketry. Lots dogs dinnery ideas used in the right places to add fun factor.

Modern vinyl can be way off tit as can some of the super highly regarded LPs...

We shall see its all coming together, Horrible or Blah or uh, thats ok... If I get summit i could have paid the same money for ready made -- then success. I sense gouging goes in the the ultra high end acrylsh laser houses
 
suspending premotec using standoffs and gasketry. Lots dogs dinnery ideas used in the right places to add fun factor.

When those motors are driven with a clean supply you'd surprised at how low the noise can be. Rega now stick them straight onto the plinth with excellent results so you might find compliant mounting unnecessary. The standard Rega supply is very basic thing yet very effective.

Getting the motor stable relative to the platter is probably more important than absolute quality of the drive signal.
 
I make no claim for golden ears, just pitch sensitivity, a curse not a blessing. Measurement always trumps a hunch, though it doesn't always mean I'll ignore the hunch.

I've owned several Maxon motors from across their range, A-Max, Re-Max and EC and using different types of top bushing arrangement. I've used them with various controllers of different type, including tacho feedback, pwm versions right down to a simple current sense feedback- in this case the one under discussion here. I also used to run and SME deck with a DC motor. I've even used ones that claim to use feedback but have no active feedback loop in their design. So yes, I've used quite a few and I've measured them all. Though you are indeed correct I'm currently the owner of none of these, well spotted.

A strobe will show you if you are above or below a fixed speed, it's not much use for giving an accurate reading as they just aren't temporally sensitive, good for a 10,000 foot view though. A Laser RPM counter is little better than a strobe, it tells you what happens when the mark passes but not anything for a sample smaller than that. I don't know which phone app you use, but none of the ones I've seen are any more accurate than a paper strobe disc.

The problem with all of those measures is that they only really tell you the average speed. They are limited in temporal resolution and offer no real insight other than playing averagely fast or slow.

Maybe stop in at the 'turntable speed stability' thread in the diy section for greater insight if you have a genuine interest in achieving results that stand up to scrutiny rather than just consisting of opinion or regurgitated marketing hyperbole.

i listened to the motors , i chose . simple as . As advised i have no desire to validate my decisions by convincing others , its hifi not marxist theory or parenting praxis ;)
 
I am just having some fun building something I always said I would do. While I can see the merits of hard assed dedication to whupping the asses of sme and grand ideas of taking on the big boys, in truth I am simply dicking about having fun.

I am sure there is a good reason pro-ject, linn and Rega and so on have all moved to dc motors, but they have their reasons and 'fun stuff to use up an old zebrano controller case rescued from a fire' is probably not on of them :)

Chill all. AC vs DC motors vs Synch vs brush/less best left to the bear pit that is /audio
 
Fox,

One thing that is definitely worth trying with an AC motor is adding some drag to the system. If you have any aluminium in your platter then this can be done rather elegantly with the close presence of a magnet or two. Or you can use a thicker bearing oil.

Enjoy regardless.

Paul
 


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