advertisement


Sick of manual gearboxes? Maybe good news is coming

I haven't read it entirely, but I agree. The manual evangelists all believe being able to change gears themselves makes them better drivers than people who prefer automatics. Which is of course total nonsense. Being a good driver is about a hell of a lot more than just being able to change a gear with a lever. But manual lovers will rant on about it endlessly. If it brings you some form of enjoyment fine, but don't go telling people it makes you a better driver as so many are prone to doing.

It's like the complaints I see so often about Porsches (usually by US reviewers most frequently it must be said) where they whine on about the gearing being too long and how that totally ruins the car because it means they can't spend their time continually changing gear. I just roll my eyes.

Oh and the "I want to control when the car changes gear because I'm better at it than the car is" argument is at least 10 years out of date now. Modern auto's be they torque converters or double clutch variants are so sophisticated they are better at the actual act of changing gear and also at when the gear change should happen most optimally than even the most experienced drivers. But they won't (usually) let you bang the car against the limiter, so they're "no fun". boo hoo.
Modern automatic gearboxes don't (yet) know if I am approaching a sharp bend, or a steep incline. I tend to notice these things before the gearbox does, because I see them coming and plan for them.

My (2017) automatic gearbox doesn't change down of its own accord on a steep descent so unless I do it manually, the car will gather speed and I'll need to keep using the brakes.
 
As with so many things in life, why does there have to be an absolute rule? To me, it has always depended on the car.

I have two cars - one is a big, soft, cosseting 4x4 with wonderful big leather armchairs, heated seats and steering wheel, and a 6 speed autobox. To have a manual gearchange in it would ruin the whole wafty driving experience completely.

However, the other car is a two seater open-topped sports car with a Rover V8 engine and 5 speed manual 'box with a short-shifter. To put an automatic gearbox in that would also ruin the whole (definitely NOT wafty) driving experience completely!
 
had both, no preference for either really,. manual for the last 20 years as do not drive much in town traffic if I can help it, tiss great being retired and picking your own preferred time and route.
 
I posted this on another but similar thread. I'm picked up weekly in an auto petrol Yaris; the first auto I've been in. Maybe her driving, though she was trained whilst a policewoman, but I find that it's all acceleration and braking; quite jerky compared to my smoother, use the gears and anticipatory stance.

I wonder if autos have engine/gear braking when you take your foot off. Naive question but I really don't know. Seems that they should, but my recent experience would seem to be that if any, auto gearbox braking is minimal at best.
 
I posted this on another but similar thread. I'm picked up weekly in an auto petrol Yaris; the first auto I've been in. Maybe her driving, though she was trained whilst a policewoman, but I find that it's all acceleration and braking; quite jerky compared to my smoother, use the gears and anticipatory stance.

I wonder if autos have engine/gear braking when you take your foot off. Naive question but I really don't know. Seems that they should, but my recent experience would seem to be that if any, auto gearbox braking is minimal at best.
Typically autos don't offer engine braking unless locked in a gear with the selector.
 
@Mike Reed if a newer Yaris it's a mild hybrid so will have gentle regen self-braking in normal D mode (more regen occurs when braking).

I drove the new Yaris and it's nippy 0-30. Could just be that.

There's misinformation going around that Toyota B mode increases regen (it doesn't it adds engine braking). Could be the driver being misled into using B mode.

--
From the manual 2019 Corolla manual: "When shift position B is selected, releasing the accelerator pedal will apply engine braking .... If the vehicle is driven continuously in the B position, fuel efficiency will become low".
 
Typically autos don't offer engine braking unless locked in a gear with the selector.
Thanks, Steve, but not sure I get that. Isn't an auto always in gear unless changing from one to another in a similar way to using a clutch on a manual? However, strikes me that brake maintenance and fuel economy must be higher as you're simply wasting the momentum of acceleration. This would be odd as I gather that there's little or no difference in fuel consumption between the two types nowadays.
 
Back in about 1990 my parents let me borrow their big, old Mercedes Benz. Iirc it was a 2.3ltr Auto in gold. It could well get rose tinted specs, but that big, bouncy car was great fun to an 18 year old me. Put your foot to the floor and the front lifted up, a bit like a motorcycle doing a wheelie.
 
If a newer Yaris it's a hybrid so will have gentle regen self-braking in normal D mode.
I asked her that (it's a lease car and quite new) and she said 'petrol, not hybrid'. Maybe she was unaware or I confused her answer. Anyway, it's certainly quick but unsettling with it ! For that size of car, it's cramped both front and back and difficult for ingress/egress. My li'l old Fabia is capacious in contrast.
 
Last edited:
Thanks, Steve, but not sure I get that. Isn't an auto always in gear unless changing from one to another in a similar way to using a clutch on a manual? However, strikes me that brake maintenance and fuel economy must be higher as you're simply wasting the momentum of acceleration. This would be odd as I gather that there's little or no difference in fuel consumption between the two types nowadays.
All auto gearboxes have a quasi-manual mode where the driver can select a gear and the box won't change up or down unless the engine rev range exceeds the limits for that gear. It can be very useful when descending long or steep hills, for example, where the normal 'semi-coasting' default mode isn't much help.
 
Thanks, Steve, but not sure I get that. Isn't an auto always in gear unless changing from one to another in a similar way to using a clutch on a manual? However, strikes me that brake maintenance and fuel economy must be higher as you're simply wasting the momentum of acceleration. This would be odd as I gather that there's little or no difference in fuel consumption between the two types nowadays.
auto boxes are complicated. I can strip and reassemble a manual box but I wouldn't know where to start with an auto. Watch some stripdowns on you tube. Manual boxes are actually always in gear unless in neutral, autos less so. Autos use Sun and planet geartrains (epicyclic) and the gears are engaged by brake bands and hydraulic ally operated clutches. They therefore don't have locked gears as such and so have less engine braking.
 
All auto gearboxes have a quasi-manual mode where the driver can select a gear and the box won't change up or down unless the engine rev range exceeds the limits for that gear. It can be very useful when descending long or steep hills, for example, where the normal 'semi-coasting' default mode isn't much help.
Think we need to make the distinciton between torque converter and dual clutch automatics here. As far as I'm aware unless a dual clutch has a specific coast mode (e.g. not all Porsche PDKs do, only from 981 onwards), then as far as I'm aware if you lift off the throttle the clutch is still engaged and there will be (for a while at least) some manner of engine braking. Until such time the gearbox software decides it should change down at least.

I've only ever driven torque converters, and I have to say that I've never noticed them not engine braking. They all seem to engine brake. At least for as long as they're in any given gear. They will of course change gear, which a manual won't obviously, which doesn't help with the hill decent scenario you mention..

NB: I've ridden 2 stroke motorbikes, so maybe my definition of "no engine braking" is different from others. Two strokes don't have engine braking, you roll off and literally nothing happens to slow the vehicle. I've never experienced that in any car no matter what gearbox it had.


Edited to add: Just read steve's post above, that makes sense to me. Though I can't honestly say I've consciously noticed the difference in the amount of engine braking between manual and auto. My car is manual, and the only time I ever drive an auto is when I go on holiday, so there's always a significant gap between driving one or the other.
 
There are a lot of Electric Learners in Milton Keynes now. Then again we have as many chargers as roundabouts and it must save a fortune in fuel bills.

Good point and a welcome development. Just need to get ev prices down so learners can afford one
 
Think we need to make the distinciton between torque converter and dual clutch automatics here. As far as I'm aware unless a dual clutch has a specific coast mode (e.g. not all Porsche PDKs do, only from 981 onwards),

IRRC my 987S did in Sports mode. Then the 981S did it, but more pronounced in Sports mode. The two 911s also do
 
NB: I've ridden 2 stroke motorbikes, so maybe my definition of "no engine braking" is different from others. Two strokes don't have engine braking,
All my Lambretta days in my yoof and slightly swinging sixties were 2 stroke but of course I can't remember engine or any other braking. Travelled to Greece via France, Germany, Austria Yugolavia and boat bouncing off Italy to Corfu in '63/4 in a very dodgy 150 cc Lambretta with a 14 stone friend on pillion + luggage. Tried to get it repaired in Italy on the way back 3 months later and somehow, we made it (I think).
 
Hmm, I think your gearbox has a problem then. I have had two of these gearboxes and never experienced these lurched kickdowns. If I am in the M235i then I am usually in sport which holds a higher gear so the requested little extra power usually does not need a gear drop. When I had the X5 even tootling along, progress was always smooth and no sense of the gearbox grabbing gears at any time.
Maybe 'lurched' is a bit OTT, but I've driven several and they all behave exactly the same. There's nothing to sense a bend coming so there's no guarantee it'll be in the right gear mid-bend, which it often isn't. In normal driving its not much of an issue but its enough for me to disagree with those who assert that the ZF auto is 'perfect'.
 
I think it's easy to either use a paddle or click the gear lever over to the left to enter manual mode, careful use of the accelerator at the correct time to eliminate a lurch on change down. That's how it works on my German car but it's not a BMW.

Manual mode's great for engine braking downhill too but i've seen too many Case gearboxes killed by that to use it aggressively.
My example was about being in auto but your point about using paddles is of course an option. But there's no need to use the throttle in manual mode - the car does it in response to the request for a new gear.
 
I'm no longer commuting, but my most-often trip to the in-laws involves a short burst along dual carriageway followed by a crawl into the city, with all the traffic lights, queuing, road works and such that that entails. These days I just want to press one pedal to go, another to stop. It's just more relaxing. Likewise, on longer trips, just set the cruise control and go. Let the car take care of which gear it needs.
 


advertisement


Back
Top