advertisement


Should I buy an EV - real world advice needed.

What does the energy get spent on? If it just motion then there would be little difference between summer and winter. But, in summer the car interior needs cooling and in winter it needs heating. For ICE the heating is at low cost because it can use the ICS waste heat. For cooling both need to use electricity. For an ICE the engine needs warming up and this will be more costly in winter. For an EV the battery needs warming up and this will be more costly in winter. Both will be less efficient in winter because of winter tyres. What else is there?
 
What does the energy get spent on? If it just motion then there would be little difference between summer and winter. But, in summer the car interior needs cooling and in winter it needs heating. For ICE the heating is at low cost because it can use the ICS waste heat. For cooling both need to use electricity. For an ICE the engine needs warming up and this will be more costly in winter. For an EV the battery needs warming up and this will be more costly in winter. Both will be less efficient in winter because of winter tyres. What else is there?
Can't be much to do with most of that, my ebike suffers 20% less miles in winter, goes down from 25 to 20 on turbo setting around Strasbourg. I can't even see how the heat required to make the battery function ok is relevant. Mine is off fast from a cold start immediately.
 
What does the energy get spent on? If it just motion then there would be little difference between summer and winter. But, in summer the car interior needs cooling and in winter it needs heating. For ICE the heating is at low cost because it can use the ICS waste heat. For cooling both need to use electricity. For an ICE the engine needs warming up and this will be more costly in winter. For an EV the battery needs warming up and this will be more costly in winter. Both will be less efficient in winter because of winter tyres. What else is there?

Batteries delivery their current far less willingly when cold so their efficiency reduces. I race RC cars and in some classes folks overcharge batteries to heat them up so they are faster for racing. This does carry some risk and the batteries wear out faster.

Just using the battery will heat it which is why BEV have cooling systems to keep temps below a certain level to maintain life and safety but equally they heat them in the cold to maximise range but this does take power as well so range is thus reduced.
 
Can't be much to do with most of that, my ebike suffers 20% less miles in winter, goes down from 25 to 20 on turbo setting around Strasbourg. I can't even see how the heat required to make the battery function ok is relevant. Mine is off fast from a cold start immediately.
Try keeping your battery indoors in the winter. Report back.
 
Traction is better but the enjoyment of driving is much reduced. Anyone can go fast in a straight line.

For 90% of driving this is not the case. I enjoy my Model 3 and it handles extremely well. It is one of the lighter BEV and like many BEV with a battery in the floor pan, having the weight down so low gives a very planted cornering stability. Brakes are excellent and the traction we all know about.

I am comparing to a M235i currently and it compares well. The M235i is better handling but it is not night and day and I still get a buzz driving the Tesla on fun roads.
 
Batteries delivery their current far less willingly when cold so their efficiency reduces. I race RC cars and in some classes folks overcharge batteries to heat them up so they are faster for racing. This does carry some risk and the batteries wear out faster.

Just using the battery will heat it which is why BEV have cooling systems to keep temps below a certain level to maintain life and safety but equally they heat them in the cold to maximise range but this does take power as well so range is thus reduced.
Yes, batteries need to be kept in a nice temperature range. Some cars allow you to preheat both the battery and interior while plugged in.
 
Some cars don’t need to be plugged in either.

The ipace can do it from the battery without being plugged in. The energy usage to do so isn’t particularly bad, as it uses a heat pump.

I don’t know, but am sure there are other models which can do similar.
My wife's Kia EV6 doesn't need to be plugged in either. A heat pump was an option when she bought the car, so we went for that as it extended the range in cold weather.
 
It's not all about battery behaviour. Scotland aside, British Winters aren't cold enough for battery chemistry to be the dominant factor in higher consumption. It's mostly down to higher load. Winter weather offers less mechanical grip and this makes traction inefficient (summer tyres are harder in cooler weather, also reducing grip). Rain and sleet offers greater resistance to forward motion, and winds are higher in Winter which will often present you with headwinds and sidewinds that require more power to keep the car going where you want it. Also, cabin heating is an additional energy demand in winter, and is a significant load. (This is why heat pumps "extend range", they bring waste heat from cooling the batteries into the cabin to avoid needing to produce that heat electrically... sort of like the way petrol engined cars heat the cabin)

All of those factors apply equally to ICE and BEV cars. The reason the BEV figure is more pronounced is down to differences in energy overhead in the power train. ICEs have a large, and fixed overhead: between the various losses at each stage, a petrol ICE uses about half the fuel you put in it just to overcome losses before you even start to deliver useful power. So, to exaggerate slightly, if you put 10 litres in, 5 is basically wasted, and the other 5 gives you your power. But that amount of overhead doesn't increase much with load (how much energy need the engine to produce due to speed conditions etc). This means that an increase in your power demand will show up as a smaller increase in fuel needs: a 20% increase in load means you need "6 litres" of work, but the power train overhead cost still comes to "5 litres worth", so you end up using 11 litres, a 10% increase.

(caveats: the figures aren't exactly that high, the overhead does increase with load, but under normal driving it's not much of an increase)

EVs power trains, by contrast, have very low overhead, so their power consumption pretty much directly follows load: you use 20% more power, the battery drains 20% faster. There's also a cold weather effect of the chemistry, but south of the snow belts, that's only a significant factor if you take lots of short journeys that don't allow the system to warm up (exactly like an ICE in that respect).

You can see the effect of this low overhead even in optimum driving weather with EVs.. if you drive very fast in them, the consumption increases at a higher rate than it would in a petrol car.
 
I've a friend who is an engineer for a German company making foam filled panels. She reports that in a petrol car cabin heating is free, whereas for an EV it's 5-10% of the total energy use. She manufactures foam panels to insulate car bodies, says it's worth at least 5% of car energy use over the year. As for preheat, a neighbour has a Tesla and does lots of miles. He says preheat and defrost in winter kills his range.
 
Some cars don’t need to be plugged in either.

The ipace can do it from the battery without being plugged in. The energy usage to do so isn’t particularly bad, as it uses a heat pump.

I don’t know, but am sure there are other models which can do similar.
Took delivery of my first EV (BMW i4) a few days back and it too can preheat without being plugged in.
Apart from no engine noise and instant toque, driving it is very similar to driving an ICE powered BMW 3/4 series from a handling perspective.
Loving it so far (especially in sport mode)
 
I've a friend who is an engineer for a German company making foam filled panels. She reports that in a petrol car cabin heating is free, whereas for an EV it's 5-10% of the total energy use. She manufactures foam panels to insulate car bodies, says it's worth at least 5% of car energy use over the year. As for preheat, a neighbour has a Tesla and does lots of miles. He says preheat and defrost in winter kills his range.
Is this with it being plugged in and charge available while pre-heating?
"climatisation" on mine has no discerable impact on range if kept plugged in and on charge. (mine is a PHEV for clarity)
For sure winter has a direct impact on available mileage, but that is expected.
 
My hybrid loses about 15% of its mpg in winter due to the cold and wet roads, more in the more extreme weather (heavy rain or snow you can lose 30-40%). ICE engines are significantly less efficient in winter, it’s just most are so inefficient another 15-20% is barely noticeable on the bottom line figure.
 
Is this with it being plugged in and charge available while pre-heating?
"climatisation" on mine has no discerable impact on range if kept plugged in and on charge. (mine is a PHEV for clarity)
For sure winter has a direct impact on available mileage, but that is expected.
Yes, it's when it's charging. He only has a low power charger mind, as it's attached to his garage and doesn't have a high power supply. We discussed it briefly as I was walking to work, he was scraping his car and I remarked that I'd seen it previously running the heating on cold mornings while he had his breakfast.
 
I've a friend who is an engineer for a German company making foam filled panels. She reports that in a petrol car cabin heating is free, whereas for an EV it's 5-10% of the total energy use. She manufactures foam panels to insulate car bodies, says it's worth at least 5% of car energy use over the year. As for preheat, a neighbour has a Tesla and does lots of miles. He says preheat and defrost in winter kills his range.
I have a friend with a Mercedes something and she won't use the air conditioning in the summer (it gets hot here in Switzerland) because it kills the range. She has a 6 km drive from work to home.
 
My understanding is that fuel consumption for ICE vehicles increases in winter because the air is denser, so each charge requires more fuel for the correct air/fuel mix. But I have noticed a difference of perhaps 5-10% between winter mpg and summer, not the 20-40% that seems to affect EVs.

Some of the consumption increase is down to temperature of the air but most is down to the car having to use more fuel to start and run until up to temperature (a "choke" in old money).

 
Once you are using the battery its inherent inefficiency will heat it. Not much, but starting warmer will help a bit.

Lithium starting batteries on big industrial diesel state in cold weather to turn on all electrical loads (lights etc) for 1 minute before starting the engine. The load being drawn from the battery generates heat making it more efficient/ powerful before trying to start the engine (the biggest electrical load).
 
i was in the service station today on M42 , totally gobsmacked by the amount of tesla chargers ....wow !!!! at least 35 !!!! far more than normal ones
 
Some of the consumption increase is down to temperature of the air but most is down to the car having to use more fuel to start and run until up to temperature (a "choke" in old money).

Partly this, don't forget that diesels especially are poor until they get properly hot, and the gear box and trans need to get warm. I know that my car is more economical 40 miles into a trip than 10, because cold oil in gearboxes etc is thicker and offers more resistance.
 


advertisement


Back
Top